Questions Regarding a Type 38 Rifle

[Tank Destroyer]

Not much that I could add that has not been said. Great job to Michael,Bill,Steve and John for all the help to Hoff. And hats off to you for the nice pictures of your rifle, you did a fine job taking the pictures.
Marty

[MAP]

Thanks Marty. But I think Bill, Steve and John know more in their pinky than everything I know. I just used my sources to do the research...I can't remember all these little details so often rely on plagiarism LoL.

[AZPhil]

Great questions Mike. I also want to know about the "M" on the receiver. I know that there are different marking when it does come to school rifles and would like clarification on that one as I have never seen an "M" marking and I am always ready to learn form the masters. This is a pic of my Type 38 school rifle. Mine is a little different from the normal 38 as mine has what looks like a type 99 barrel band/bayonet lug at the end of the stock. I have always questioned it but several years age somebody posted the same configuration on another site I frequent . MAN O MAN was I happy to see that pic

I was told the upper kanji indicates "School". I will also add that this rifle is still a tack driver.



Semper Fi
Phil

[MAP]

Yes. That is the "Symbol" I was talking about for Japanese school rifles vs the "M" on Hoff's rifle. This is where I get my plagiarism.

Markings on Japanese Arisaka Rifles and Bayonets of World War II

a quarter of the way down under the maker characters is a hand drawn symbol.

Here is the direct quote

"At various times, rifles were removed from military service and sold to other countries or transferred to Japanese schools as training weapons. Normally, the chrysanthemum on these rifles was overstamped with the Koishikawa (Tokyo) / Kokura Arsenal symbol or a ring of small circles to indicate that the rifle no longer belonged to the Imperial Japanese Army. Rifles given to schools often have an additional character stamped on the top of the receiver between the chrysanthemum and the type designation characters. Most of these "school-marked" rifles also have two or three zeros preceeding the serial number. "

This is the comment for Nagoya type 38's

"Rifles in this series have been observed with (i) mum removed and either an elongated M or the school mark substituted, or (ii) mum overstamped by the Nagoya symbol, an elongated M, or other characters. The elongated M indicates "military reserves". "

Hopefully someone can shed definitive light, but I think yours is a "text book" school rifle.

[Torch]

I have a oblong circle overstamped Nagoya from the 27 series with a 31706 serial number but unfortunately I doesn't give a date of manufacture..any other reference material that might give me this? Thanks Sean

[MAP]

I have a oblong circle overstamped Nagoya from the 27 series with a 31706 serial number but unfortunately I doesn't give a date of manufacture..any other reference material that might give me this? Thanks Sean

I'm out camping now (which means it will be raining soon). But the website linked above should give you the date range. Just compare by looking at the series and serial number. Let me know if you need help and I can look when I return.

[Torch]

Unfortunately there is no date range for the 27 series that's why I was wondering if there was any other reference material I could search through..

[Torch]

Found this site and there is a 27th series Nagoya made rifle with a serial number 31584...mine is 31706...thats very close
Type 38

[MAP]

Unfortunately there is no date range for the 27 series that's why I was wondering if there was any other reference material I could search through..

Series 26 stops at 1940: Which would mean that yours was made between 1940 and 1945.

I'm speculating here, but as it is a Series 27 (which was followed by another known 28 and 29) and assuming higher quality fit and finish it would be closer to 1940 end of the spectrum.

Lower quality fit and finish rifles were produced later. I'm not sure then the "Last Ditch" types were being produced (these were actually a series of short cuts and cutback over time) but assume it would be late 1944 through 1945.

Nothing specific and a bit of guesswork on my part, but I would say 1941/42 range.

Hope this helps.

[AZPhil]

Thanks for that site link Torch
This is another site I frequent and use for my references and questions. Like this site there are Great folks who are willing to share their expertise.

Japanese Rifles

Semper Fi
Phil