What is this?

[Larboard]

Here's a little history, from Armslist, guy really really knows how to write an ad ;-)

This Hitler Youth Mauser is one of the RAREST firearms you'll ever find. It has been in my families private collection for over 20 years! I am not in a hurry to sell, THIS IS A ONE TIME AUCTION!! The bolt action rifle is German, made by the Gustloff Arms Works in Suhl, probably in the 1930's, as a training rifle, hence its sights and other features resembling those of the Modell 98 military rifle. "Kleinkaliber (KK) Wehrsportgewehr" means "Small bore (.22) Defense and Sport Rifle." ".22 Lang fur Buchsen" simply means ".22 Long Rifle." The Gustloff factory was originally Simpson & Co., but the Simpsons were Jews and the Nazi government took over the factory and named it for Wilhelm Gustloff, the Swiss Nazi leader who had been assassinated. (A ship also named for him was sunk by the Russians late in WWII, with a loss of some 10,000 lives, the greatest marine loss in history.) SA d NSDAP stands for "Sturmabteilung der National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei", which means it was owned by the so-called "attack section" of the NSDAP (Nazi) party. The SA, also known as "storm troopers" or "Brownshirts" was the part of the Nazi party originally charged with breaking up rallies of other parties and beating up anyone who opposed the Nazis in the period when the Nazis were seeking power through election.

ARMSLIST - For Sale: Mauser Youth Training Rifle ...22 kal , Extremely Rare

Another one, halfway decent pics. Damn, I want one of these!

Walther Nazi NSDAP Hitler Youth KKW 22 lr Training Rifle For Sale at GunAuction.com - 8083820

Some decent info and pics;

https://books.google.com/books?id=p4...0rifle&f=false

[mauser9]

Easily worth the money if original. If ya can get a deal grab it and find a stock disc.

[Hummel]

Well the stock has been modified and it has competition sights on it. Someone added some wood on each side of the forward grip so that it is 3.5"-4" wide now. It has a lot of added on metal sights. It is probably a Norinko, but I won't be able to check for a bit. I am back in town Monday for a doctors appointment but only for a few hours. If I don't make it for pics on that trip it will be the following Monday before I am in for a 5 week break.

The reason I wouldn't jump on it at the $600 price tag is:
1. it may not be original
2. they always. Have stuff over priced at this pawn shop. He has a Luftwaffe sword for $1700. It is missing the leather hanger and is just a normal one. When I asked him about it, with out me haggling at all he said he would do $1200....
3. I didn't know what it was exactly
AND
4: I live in the south and there are tons of military guns to be had at reasonable prices

But the SAdNSDAP seem to be rare and worth the money if this one started out from Germany as an original. I wonder how much the modifications will effect its value? And wether there is any possibility that they could have been done pre WWII or if some GI brought it home and did it.....

But first l must detirmin that it is a real one and not just a Norinko copy.

Thanks for every ones input.

Hummel

[Hummel]

I got some more information and photos of the rifle. Maybe this will get me some more info on originality.

I think that it was re-blued when the modifications were made or it is in very nice shape.


Markings on rifle:
Gustloffwerke
Waffleswerk-Suhl

Kal .22 Lang Für Büchsen
S# 245370

There is also a German eagle with an "N" under it and a "5A" stamped somewhere, I did not take note of where though.

The extra photos show the forward grip and how it was customized to make it wider. There are also a couple of the target sights that were added.

Can anyone offer more information about this rifle?

Thank you,
Hummel

[Hummel]

With these modifications does it lower the value on the collectors market a great deal? I assume so but I wonder how much? Does it make it a total wash out for the collector?

Hummel

[mauser9]

Any modifications and rebluing will of course affect value. From the pics it does look like a well built rifle. I would offer considerably less than the asking price of $1200 due to the changes. Still it is an appealing rifle. Many times when it comes to classic firearms like this people can never leave well enough alone and destroy value. Guess things were different many years back when surplus was cheap but not anymore.

[Hummel]

I would offer considerably less than the asking price of $1200 due to the changes.

The price they are asking is $700 for the rifle.

I just don't know if that price is even acceptable with the modifications, but I do not know enough about Mausers and the SA trainers in particular, to be able to price one with these kind of modifications. My assumption would be that it is totally ruined as Third Reich piece and only good as an old gun. At that point how much is an altered Mauser .22 from the 30's worth... $700 seems too much. But if l am wrong and the gun is rare enough to hold historic value what would range should it fit in?

Thank you for your reply mauser9.

Hummel

[Larboard]

Would have been helpful to see pics of the whole rifle. It's got a Lyman peep sight added, other than that I'm seeing seeing anything in your pics that would make me either buy it or pass on it, there's just not enough info, no pics of markings (easy way to tell a reblue), no pics of the stock, etc, etc. The bluing is either real good or it's been reblued, from your pics, it's impossible to tell. If you can't tell a reblue yourself, you shouldn't be buying collector guns, you're going to get ripped off. I've looked at so many reblue this and that over the years... most of the time the seller says he didn't know, or says it's not when it is.

Anyway, with the peep sight installed and the wood boogered up, not sure it's worth going any further, it's been reblued, don't walk, run the other way. You could get a straight SA trainer around this price if you really wanted one.

[Hummel]

Hello Larboard, I was hoping that just providing what the markings were would be helpful enough. My cell takes very poor pictures. I can take my Canon down or I can have my buddy go with me, he has an iPhone and they take pretty good pictures. Give me a few days and I will go back and get better pictures. I had surgery on my knee today and won't be driving my stick shift for a bit. What photos are you needing? Overall rifle, both sides and close ups of all markings.... Anything else in particular?

Hummel

[Larboard]

We cross posted, I was editing my post when you were typing. I'm not sure this rifle is worth pursuing. If you can't tell if it's reblued ask the guys at the shop. If it's not, it's still worth considering. If it is, I'd say forget all about it but that's just me. I can't stand reblued guns.


PS did you get a knee scope?