Concentration Camp Glass with Swastika - Thoughts?

[BOB COLEMAN]

I completely understand this. However, surely we are able to debate this piece? I'm probing with good intention. I will question opinion in order to see the rationality behind thinking.

I believe you have obtained some valid opinions from the members so only you can decide what to believe.

[Larry C]

Hi Duncan..are your glass experts versed into Third Reich Crystal production or just in general glass etch production. This is a constructive question and by no means negative.

Regards Larry

[DuncanWilson]

Hi there, Larry. My father and other experts I am acquainted with are specialist in general glass. My father specialises in Edinburgh crystal and the others range from lead class/crystal to glass specific by country. I believe this glass was made before or during the Third Reich in Czechoslovakia, and then the swastika added at a later time by some unskilled worker. Cheers!

[Wagriff]

So....you are saying that the glass and/or crystal experts you are consulting are Not versed in Third Reich crystal manufacturing? Just what exactly Is the difference between Bohemian/Czech lead crystal of 1944 and Bohemian/Czech lead crystal of, say, 1962? Are there any differences? And has this even been determined yet if it Is lead crystal or cut glass? Most crystal will have a maker's mark on the bottom-are there any such found on this piece? Does it ring when tapped?

I've used high lead crystal for many years as regular drink ware and have appraised,bought and sold antiques for longer than many people have been alive. I've owned and used Baccarat,Waterford, Orrefors, and many others. The crystal that I use today is Kinsale-probably the finest crystal produced. The piece shown does not look outwardly to Be crystal but is, more likely, something such as Bohemian cut glass-which was and has been quite popular for many decades-including the WWII era. Crystal, as you know, is thick Liquid and must be periodically turned upside down when stored or if stored permanently upright, it's rim will eventually become razor thin and break off. I turn mine every 2 years-although I should Really turn them Every year. The rim on the piece you have looks to be quite thick, which would eliminate the notion that it is over 7 decades old crystal. If it is, as guessed, cut glass this would not apply, of course. Glass is simple enough to either etch or engrave-you can visit any county fair and have your name put on a souvenir beer glass or shotglass in a number of minutes. The skill and talent shown in applying the crooked swastika on this mug is definitely Not high grade and would never have been "produced in a concentration camp" for an SS Officer or guard. The concentration camps gathered the finest craftsmen from all over occupied Europe and put them to work for them-as can be seen in the famed Dachau SS Allach subcamp and it's products.

Unfortunately, the piece you've posted was made in the modern era and not 7 to 8 decades ago. I see no seed bubbles in the glass nor does the clarity of the glass exhibit 75 years worth of aging to it. Glass is easily aged with very fine lines of handling, storage and what have you. A quick scan with a loupe will show this immediately. There are various grades of quality for Glass. Hand blown being the best with mass produced machine made glass being the least. I have handled and owned glass from the ancient Roman era up to today's Chinese made drek. Your piece is almost certainly modern glass of the last quarter of a century. Someone has defaced it with a crudely produced swastika. A shame, as it would have been a fine usable beer mug.

[carpediem]

The last thing that I would add to this discussion is that after searching TR era glassware on the internet one thing seems consistent with it. They would have made the swastika smaller before they would have allowed it to become defaced by the design of the glassware itself. At least that is what I see as a layman looking at proven TR pieces. Is that to say this is automatically ruled out? Of course not, small negatives do add up though. TR collecting is, as many before you and I have learned, a minefield full of hidden displeasures. I recently acquired a piece which may not be authentic. I am not posting it here because it doesn't matter if it is or it isn't, I like it, and I will not waste the time of others when I am keeping it and am not worried about what I spent on it. I would encourage you to do the same. Put it up on a shelf and display it. Just always know that, should you ever desire to sell it, you may be hard pressed to get anyone who knows to pay much for an unverified piece with no provenance.
Good luck with your collecting!

[CARL]

Duncan, feel free to update this thread with your recent images...if you feel that necessary...

The other, duplicate thread, has now been deleted as it really served no purpose on the forum.

As suggested in my private message, consider alternative sites (glass makers database / glass collector forum....?)

Good luck!

Carl