Reichsbahn - Goring Rail Car - Fork and Knife

[Rossi]

Hello,

Need some help here. I know only a little about the rail car flatware used by Hitler, Goring and Himmler. A fellow collector in the midwest asked me about these pieces today and emailed me photos. I told him what I knew which was I believe Hitler's Car was 10244 and Goring's Car for Dining / Salon was 10243. These are marked with the 90 which is the Bruckmann firm I believe who was one of the main makers. Other than that I cannot verify if they are real or not. I have seen some on major dealer sites showing Goring's rail car as 10205 as well.

I know in the past these have had whirls and swirls of authenticity questions. I have seen what I think to be 1970s polish made fakes that are lasered and not stamped. What does the group of experts know about these and do these look okay to you?

My question to my friend James on these I have always wondered about was if all DR Adler Marked Flatware was marked with a car number? Are there examples without any 3 digit number? If so why not have the full 10243 and 10244 versus just the 3 digit indentifier? Was the 3 digit number added post war to make these pieces more valuable as they were made to seem from Hitler's, Himmler's or Goring's car. I may be over thinking this? i unfortunately could not find any deep threads on this and don't have the Jim Yanne's book on Third Reich Vittle Utensils

Thanks in advance for your help! Rossi & James

[Wagriff]

Just a couple of odd notes....the 3 digit numbers are normal, so far as I've ever seen. I can't say that I've ever encountered one with a full number. What bothers me is, the "90" mark which indicates that it is silver plated. The eagles on the handles seem to be showing Very heavy wear and have almost no details left to them-but why is there no base metal showing through if these are silver plated and heavily worn? Is it just the lighting?

I know that my wife and I here started out using an antique silver plate flatware set, but they did tend to show wear-through too quickly for my liking, so we went to sterling. Unfortunately, sterling tarnishes and turns black, so we ended up going to a good stainless set then-problem solved. Plated flatware tends to wear through in a couple of usual spots first-such as the heel beneath the bowl or tines, where it rests on the table, and also on the shoulder up at the end of the handle. I, personally, would be very cautious of these pieces. They could well be genuine, but I would be careful about them.

[Rossi]

Just a couple of odd notes....the 3 digit numbers are normal, so far as I've ever seen. I can't say that I've ever encountered one with a full number. What bothers me is, the "90" mark which indicates that it is silver plated. The eagles on the handles seem to be showing Very heavy wear and have almost no details left to them-but why is there no base metal showing through if these are silver plated and heavily worn? Is it just the lighting?

I know that my wife and I here started out using an antique silver plate flatware set, but they did tend to show wear-through too quickly for my liking, so we went to sterling. Unfortunately, sterling tarnishes and turns black, so we ended up going to a good stainless set then-problem solved. Plated flatware tends to wear through in a couple of usual spots first-such as the heel beneath the bowl or tines, where it rests on the table, and also on the shoulder up at the end of the handle. I, personally, would be very cautious of these pieces. They could well be genuine, but I would be careful about them.

I appreciate the thoughts and opinions. I told James I would get many opinions for him before he decides on these. It is so hard not to have this stuff in hands. I am not sold either way on what to suggest to him. I have seen the adler's details poor on others in the past and have seen them crisp as well. James told me they are from a reputable dealer. So I am doing some more digging as well for him with a few more sources as well. You bring up many valid points.

[DianaGaleM]

The main cause of silver loss is polishing, so if a set was well used and seldom polished (e.g., as in a restaurant), it could get beat up looking before there was any silver loss. Also, if the base metal was Alpakka, silver loss might not be as evident. However, there is still reason to be cautious with regard to anything purported to be Nazi tableware.

[Rossi]

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