lack of moral fibre

[avenger]

What is LMF?

Edit: duh, it's in the title.

[A.J. Zawadzki]

it must have been bloody terrifying,, i honestly dont think i would have been able to cope with it???,,

Agreed 100%. I cannot imagine what these men endured and still maintain their sanity. To have to climb into that bomber over and over again to experience the terror of staring death in the face each time - thousands of feet up in the air. And there were so many of these unbelievable courageous men. This article offers a glimpse of what it was like:

Brave? They were scared witless. What made them heroes was defying that fear, raid after terrifying raid | Daily Mail Online

Regards,
Tony

[Wagriff]

Perhaps a stupid question, but was the reason for many of these men refusing to go on any more missions due totally to the ferocious resistance and counter measures the enemy ran against them, or did part of it have to do with not being able to stomach what they knew they were doing to the innocent civilians below, in places of near total devastation such as Hamburg or Dresden? What kind of feelings did some of these airmen have, I have to wonder, after flying on one of Bomber Harris's city destroying raids? Certainly, they must have realized that these kinds of raids were vastly different from the military and factory target attacks previously flown. Destroying a U-Boot pen is one thing, or leveling a Panzer factory, maybe destroying a railroad or communication hub...but how would that compare to a flyer who knew he was incinerating thousands of children and harmless civilians below? It must have been soul shaking, to say the least. I wonder what the alcoholism rates were for these men or the suicide numbers.

[No1canuck]

I had an uncle shipped back home because of a nervous breakdown. Don't think he was called LMF but discharged as unfit for duty. I don't think he ever fully recovered. Humans can only take so much.

Steve

[Wagriff]

A good friend of mine was at Pearl when it was attacked. He never did recover either, but spent the rest of his life in a VA facility in Wisconsin. War takes a terrible toll in more than just blood.

[CampX]

I Think some may have misunderstood my post. My point was yes, many men broke down and could not go on for real reasons. I was stating, to stamp them LMF was bull crap, it destroyed thier Military service and many it took a toll on the rest of their lives.

It disgusts me that this was done to these Men, and many were vols to begin with!!!

Again, Just My Thoughts

Dean O
Canada

[Wagriff]

Old Patton found That out, slapping the 2 soldiers in the hospitals...Even his old comrade 4 Gold Stars General "Black Jack" Pershing condemned him for doing it.

[asterperious]

It was the attitude of the times, the job needed to be done and they were trained to do it they were expected to be 'men', a much different social 'norm' than now. I am not condoning their treatment however.

The LMF men were not discharged,they were whisked away immediately - quick medical evaluation and then posted to far flung training stations, records centres, graves registration units, crash clean up parties etc. usually they lost their aircrew brevets and some rank. Officers were typically given more leeway than the men, and it depended on the squadron, number of ops, how desperate crew needs were etc.

For example, I knew many RAF and RCAF crew and have nearly 100 hour of oral histories with men I knew and had open up to me. One fellow- a great tough minded guy - did a tour as a Navigator with 207 squadron in '42-43 starting on Manchesters of all things, his whole crew were DFC, DFM, skipper DSO. He was posted to a training unit as an instructor after his first tour and did not perform well with those duties, he developed attitude, was cavalier, disrespectful etc. the unit C/O tried to LMF him. The medical officer dosed him (voluntarily) with sodium pentathol and my Nav buddy revealed that deep down he had no trouble with ops but was deathly scared of being killed in a training accident by a sprog pilot. So he did another tour of ops and then was posted home.

Another guy I knew was a lancaster Flight Sergeant tail gunner on an RCAF Squadron. He was on his third tour in March '45 and they were on taxi for a daylight raid when as he related 'The lanc on the runway 2 ships up just ****in blew up. As we held there, engines running I undid my harness rotated the turret abeam, opened the hatch and tumbled out on to the runway. Walked to dispersal threw my helmet at the X/O and said I'm not going again and I don't give a shit what you do with me. The X/O immediately wrote up an LMF letter. That afternoon the wing commander cancelled the LMF and posted him home.

All these guys knew the risks, while somewhat understanding of guys who cracked, they were not generally sympathetic as it just meant it risked the rest of the crews lives and someone else would just have to take their spot.

[The Devil's Bank]

You have these brave RAF (& Commonwealth Countries) Airmen, who have "done" complete Tours of Operations, be it 25 or 30 or 35.

To expect them to carry on without any physical/mental effects is quite shocking really, it's a complete lack of respect/honour.

I have "read" many books were Airmen coundn't take any more, seeing their friends killed/injured/badly burned, a person can only take so much.

To cart them off to Scotland and force to sweep the runways from snow, just shows the lack of dignity shown to these brave soldiers.

"LMF" was stamped on their passports, so any one going abroad would have to show this passport to complete strangers, for years to come.

It's shameful, people react in different ways, nobody should suffer this stigma, they were brave men who gave more than most.

That's including their health.

They will always be my heroes, and thank god I've never had to be put in that position.

That's because of THEIR bravery.

I'd shake the hands of every last one of them.