Hi Steve, you are most probably correct in your suspicion that Arthur's friend dropped the dime on your listing, my God, the decal was incredibly offensive! I also noticed in the listing that the seller would not accept paypal. I emailed him through ebay to ask if he would consider a paypal payment from the US, so that I could be protected if the item wasn't as he described. Not surprisingly, he flatly refused to consider paypal for this item - no mystery about why. Just one more ebay seller to avoid. I have bought many good helmets on ebay, but there are, indeed, a plethora of sellers who have but a fleeting acquaintance with truth and veracity selling less than authentic items on that site - too bad really, and impossible to stop. Anyway, I will be interested to see how this listing ends. Perhaps we should complain to ebay that his pictures also display offensive images. After all, what is sauce for the goose... Anyway, just a thought. Cheers, Jim G.
"What happens to them when I'm dead is not my problem"
Harry this is your quote from the M42 Camo thread and this ebay scammer is exactly why it should be your problem, and I am very glad to see that you have made it your problem with this one.
Because the same thing applies to "what happens with them when they are sold is not my problem". It is one and the same.
Because we never know where reproduction and restored items wind up and because most collectors get wise at some point, items like this helmet and other restos/repros inevitably wind up with unscrupulous jerkoffs like this ebay scammer selling 87 year old Arthur's old 'elmet and they will take advantage of anyone they can.
Sadly all too often that person who gets scammed is a young collector just starting off who can't afford a mint Fallschirmjager lid, is excited to get something "real" from WW2 only to find out he was jobbed, and away he walks from our hobby forever.
Did you buy the helmet as a shell and add the repro liner and chinstraps or did you acquire the helmet with them pre-existing?
Across several threads you have gone off about dealers being less than honest, and you are quite emphatic about it each time. Yet you sold this helmet to a dealer and are not sure if this dealer is the same one who is scamming, er selling, this Fallschirmjager pot on ebay. If you find dishonest dealers reprehensible why did you sell the Fallschirmjager to someone who is potentially a dishonest one?
Do you agree that there is a responsibility amongst collectors as to whom they do business with for fear of this very thing happening and at the very least shutting them out of the very inventory that they use to harm others?
Who was the dealer at the Preston Arms Fair that bought this helmet?
I dont mean to give you the 3rd degree but this thread is leaving me confused as it contradicts some of the other comments you have made elsewhere and believe some clarity is in order.
Last edited by DougB; 06-11-2010 at 12:49 AM.
Honor....among ...Dealers!!??? What is that? Did it ever exist?
However, the Lying Scumbag piece of S--T that is selling the Helmet needs to have his knickers pulled up over his head and Beaten till he is Bleeding PROFUSELY out of his ears!
The sick thing is that some Moron out there with a lot more money than Brains and Research time, will believe this Scab's "Little innocent Child that has stumbled on an authentic Helmet" story and buy the damn thing. Then he'll have a Bad Taste in his mouth about this Hobby and "All" Dealers forever. and that's to bad. Maybe someone will be able to get it cheap when the buyer gives up on third reich and starts collecting Match Books from Hotels. Butch
I both appreciate and understand your points of view. But you also have to understand mine. I cannot change my view on the right of anyone to own a refurbished item (I don't look on these as fakes) if that is what they choose to own. I cannot be held responsible for what someone may choose to do with an item I sell.
If I sell an item with an honest description I am not conning anyone. What the new owner does with HIS property is HIS affair. But should I see the item being sold with lies attached to it I will try and alert people. You cannot stop selling things just because someone else may choose to commit a criminal act (fraud) with it. Otherwise you would put a stop to the re-sale of almost everything!
You cannot pick out a dealer as dishonest unless you have been made aware of what he does. They do not walk around with DISHONEST DEALER tatoo'ed on their forehead. I do tend to treat ALL dealers with suspicion - untill I know them. But if I have an item to sell - and a fellow collector is unwilling to pay what I want I have to keep it or sell it. And if I need the money I will sell it -with an honest and truthful description. It's not just dealers who are bent, there are many collectors equally as bent - but I am not one of them.
Well done harry for tackling the dealer,lv
I am very sure he knows full-well what he is selling, although he claims to know nothing about them. It's very enlightening to read his answers to questions isn't it? Whatever I put in the shell has not ruined it as an original Fj shell. It is STILL that historical item, and has lost none of it's value for having these things added.
I know people frown upon these practices of 'restoration' but I see nothing wrong in replacing that missing rivet in a stalhelm, or perhaps that missing chinstrap - even a repro liner. As long as the shell has not been tampered with you have not deminshed an object's value by adding missing items. My P08's from WW1 were just as valuable for having a WW2 non-matching magazine. As were other guns which had non-matching serial numbered parts.
My EREL Infantry officers cap which had the eagle looted from it at the end of the war was not deminshed in value because I put a genuine replacement eagle on it. If people have collections which are crammed with items which are all totally 100% original in every part I am very happy for them. And if people have collections with items that are not totally correct - so what? If they are happy with it what does it matter?
As an aside, my friend (who knows nothing about helmets) want's me to look at a chromed US M1 helmet. The dealer is asking £160 for it. I suppose you can guess what I told my friend to do. I have just a few day's ago received an almost mint WW2 Spanish helmet - complete with original WW2 liner. When I show it my friend tomorrow I could tell him it was an M42 German helmet and he could have it 'cheap' for £200. I have no doubt that he would snatch my hand off. That's how much knowledge some people have about these things. Needless to say - I always make sure I'm with him now when he is out buying something.
My EREL Infantry officers cap which had the eagle looted from it at the end of the war was not deminshed in value because I put a genuine replacement eagle on it.
--If you havent told anyone when it goes for sale it wont as it will be assumed to be untouched. Otherwise then yes, it does decrease in value.
This isnt about what makes people happy Harry, it is about disclosure and about the responsibility collectors bear when they own these artefacts.
Your viewpoint seems to be, and correct me if I am wrong because I do not wish to put words into your mouth, that anything goes when you own it, so long as you are happy with it. I couldn't disagree more.
Cap missing a badge, certainly it can be replaced. Just disclose this to the next guy.
Certainly items will be restored. However some are "upgraded", some are altered, some are plain made up.
But you keep railing on about dishonest dealers yet have no qualms about where an item goes after it leaves your hands.
And now we have an FJ item being doshed off onto some poor sap with an 87 year old story behind it. This is where these things tend to go and like it or not, it hurts the hobby.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree on this, I just wanted to get some clarity and I feel quite strongly about reproduction items being added to honest items to enhance them for any reason.
I still am curious if you care to answer, who was the dealer at the Preston Arms Fair who you sold the helmet to, who is the guy selling it now, and is the reproduction work on the helmet your handiwork?
Well to be frank this whole 'it doesn't hurt to change a liner , replace the rivets , add a repro this and add a repro that' is just complete BS and that is not what collecting period pieces is about.
If that's what you do fine , I'll call you a fiddler and not a collector. You get a kick out of fiddling with helmets not collecting them.
I'm a very very active member of the helmet collector community
and I see people posting this kind of crap on forums every day for years now asking opinions on originality.
Here again is prove that it does hurt to put an fake liner in a good shell , it does hurt to put a fake strap on a good helmet and it does hurt to put fake decals on a good ND M42.
It's not so innocent as Harry tries to tell us , it's what fakers do as well , we can perhaps call everything a restoration because I'm sure using this term will make some of you feel better.
Although to restore something is to change something back to it's original condition.
And again people , there's plenty of original stuff out there. Don't settle for less but save a little more and buy authentic , unquestionable items.
if your passion for history is serious I'm sure you'll be much more happy with a 100% untouched item.