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SS Para Helmet

Article about: Hey Guys saw this for sale,they want \\$7,500 US for it.What are you thoughts on it? Studly [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

  1. #21

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    I do not like the decal on this helmet, and in fact, from what I see in the pictures, I don't get warm and fuzzy about the liner and chinstrap, and I would like to see a maker/size stamp on the shell, as well as more shots of the rolled edge, and some nice clear straight on shots of the shell itself for that matter. In addition, to my knowledge there are no period photos that show runes on the helmets worn by SS paratroopers. I guess what I am saying is that the decal is certainly bad, and even if the rest of the piece checks out, and to me it doesn't, $7500 is the going rate for a nice SD Luft para. I wouldn't want this one at all. Sorry. Jim G.

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  3. #22

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    I am also of a mind to say this helmet is not legitimate, but am open to more knowledgeable and experienced members' opinions. If this lid is all real, it must be worth a few times more than the asking price. I would drool if I could get my hands on a real one just to hold it.

    Regarding the Waffen SS Vet: I too would love to hear/read commentary from any man who served in a WSS unit. There are very few left alive these days and the whole population of WWII combat vets is sadly diminishing every day. I had the privilege as a child of knowing a gentleman in my school who was a janitor , but had served as a Canadian infantryman at Ypres in the Great War. Mr. Owens was a very nice man and he would patiently tell me about the trench life and the warfare he experienced. I would stay after school to talk to him while he went about his work and found myself sometimes lost in his stories. He once brought a couple of uniform items and medals to show me along with a pickelhaube and some photos. He always told me that although he was proud of his service, he would have given anything to not have the images of that war in his memory. I apologize for digressing, but the point is that I hope that anyone who knows a veteran, especially from the Axis powers will invite him to this forum to enlighten us and clear up any contoversy to which he might have first-hand knowledge.

    George

  4. #23
    ?

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    Guys just because the SS Fallschirmjager units existed does not ain any way mean that they wore SS decals on the helmets , no contemporay photos have ever shown this and plenty of photos of SS Fallschirmjager exist . As George and Jim have pointed out the price asked for this helmet would be four or five times the price if it was real as the SS Runic Fallschirmjager helmet is an almost mythical beast !!

    As Jim has stated this is a fake decal on a possible fake helmet as better photos are needed to autheticate the Para lid itself.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  5. #24

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    Quote by Paul E View Post
    Guys just because the SS Fallschirmjager units existed does not ain any way mean that they wore SS decals on the helmets , no contemporay photos have ever shown this and plenty of photos of SS Fallschirmjager exist . As George and Jim have pointed out the price asked for this helmet would be four or five times the price if it was real as the SS Runic Fallschirmjager helmet is an almost mythical beast !!

    As Jim has stated this is a fake decal on a possible fake helmet as better photos are needed to autheticate the Para lid itself.
    thatis just the thing, Paul. In all of the photos shown of SS fallschirmjaeger troops, there is not a single shot I can find of a helmet with runes as most are taken from the left of the wearer. I have serious doubts as to whether there ever was a Fallschirmjager helmet with SS runes. I would love to be proven wrong just to see a real example though.

  6. #25

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    Quote by Studl View Post
    Hey Guys here are some links you might find interesting and some info i found.
    500th SS Parachute Battalion

    The 500th SS-Parachute Battalion (500. SS-Fallschirmjägerbatallion) was the parachute unit of the Waffen-SS.

    The idea to form a paratrooper unit within the Waffen-SS, allegedly, came directly from Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler.

    Creation

    Himmler supposedly got the idea in September 1943, after Operation Oak ("Unternehmen Eiche"). Operation Oak was launched on 12 September and included an airborne raid on Gran Sasso. The operation was planned by Kurt Student. During this raid, a group of German parachutists freed deposed Italian dictator Benito Mussolini. Otto Skorzeny took part in the raid by command of German dictator Adolf Hitler. The raid included a daring glider-based assault on the Campo Imperatore Hotel at Gran Sasso and managed to rescue Mussolini with only firing a single round.

    Organization

    Considering that the new Waffen-SS unit of parachutists had to be employed in dangerous actions beyond the enemy lines, it was decided to extend enlistment to those in the SS disciplinary units which were formed from officers, non-commissioned officers, and soldiers who had had problems with the military law: an order of the SS-FHA (the SS High Command) fixed a percentage of 50% for the coming from volunteers from Waffen-SS units and the rest for volunteers from the disciplinary units.

    Per Massimiliano Afiero, in "The Crusade against Bolshevism; European Voluntary Legions" (1941-1944), Vol.1, states that many witnesses and historians, placed excessive emphasis on the presence of these in the unit, mainly because of the number of identification of same unit (500) assigned to SS-Bewährungsbataillon 500, a penal unit of the SS. The gathering of the personnel for new unit was in Chlum in Czechoslovakia in October 1943. As first commander of the battalion was SS-Sturmbannführer Herbert Gilhofer, coming from from the 21st SS-Panzergrenadier Regiment of the 10th SS-Panzer-Division Frundsberg. In November 1943 the battalion began its training in Madanrushka-Banja (Mataruška banja), close to Sarajevo, with the Luftwaffe Fallschirmschule number 3. The training was completed in the area around Pápa, Hungary in the beginning of 1944.

    Organization (early 1944)

    * Battalion Headquarters Company
    ** Supply Platoon
    ** Communications Platoon
    ** War-reporter Squad
    ** Motorcycle-dispatch Squad
    ** Maintenance Platoon
    ** Parachute Rigger Platoon
    * Three Parachute Companies
    ** Three Parachute Platoons
    *** Three Rifle Squads
    *** Three Sub-machinegun Squads
    *** Mortar Squad
    ** Communications Squad
    * Parachute Heavy Weapons Company
    ** Machine-gun Platoon
    ** Mortar Platoon
    ** Flamethrower Platoon
    ** Anti-tank Platoon (4x 75 mm LG-40 recoilless rifles)

    Raid on Tito's HQ

    The 500th was led by Hauptsturmführer Kurt Rybka during its daring parachute and glider-borne assault on Tito's headquarters outside of Drvar on 25 May 1944. The raid, called Operation Knight's Leap ("Unternehmen Rösselsprung"), was reported in the 6 June issue of the German armed forces's daily report ("Wehrmachtbericht"). Two companies were dropped directly on Tito's headquarters while the other two were landed by DFS 230 glider.

    The operation turned out to be a complete disaster. The first wave of paratroopers, following heavy bombardment by the Luftwaffe, fell in between the area of the cave, Tito's hideout, and the town of Drvar. The paratroopers landed on open ground and many were gunned down by members of the partisan HQ Escort Battalion, a company numbering less than 100 soldiers. The second wave of paratroopers missed their target and landed a few miles out of town. Tito was long gone when the paratroopers captured the cave. Right next to the cave's exit there was a path leading to a railroad where Tito boarded a train that took him to safety to the town of Jajce. Tito had been forewarned and evaded capture while the numerically superior partisan forces drove off the SS paratroopers. Over 800 of the 1000 personnel who participated in the operation were killed or injured.

    After the Raid

    The survivors were at first sent to Petrovac then later to Ljubljana, where they remained until the end of June. They were then transferred to Gotenhafen (Gdynia), West Prussia to take part in the planned occupation of the Finnish-controlled Åland Islands in the Baltic Sea, but this was cancelled. They were then sent to join III. SS-Panzerkorps at Narva, but were ordered to be flown to Kaunas, Lithuania on 9 July. There they formed a kampfguppe with I./Panzerregiment GD to relieve the trapped German forces at Vilnius. Subsequently they often acted as 3rd Panzer Army's 'fire brigade' in its defense of the Baltic States. By 20 August 1944 they were down to a strength of 90 men [Munoz, Anthonio J. Forgotten Legions: Obscure Combat Formations of the Waffen-SS, p. 42] , but remained in combat for the next several months as the Germans were desperate for any and all combat troops to stave off the Soviet offensives.

    The paras were finally relieved in late October and were flown to Deutsch-Wagram, Austria where they were incorporated into the SS-Fallschirmjägerbataillon 600 after a week's rest.

    The SS-Fallschirmjäger never fought in France. It is sometimes stated in histories of the French Resistance that SS paratroopers carried out a parachute assault in July 1944 against French partisan forces on the Vercors plateau in the French Alps where hundreds of partisans had created a stronghold from which they were mounting operations against the German occupiers. However, they were not Waffen-SS but Luftwaffe special forces from the secretive Kampfgeschwader 200. These para-trained commandos of II./KG 200 remain a little-known arm of Germany's WW2 parachute forces and were listed on II./KG 200's ORBAT as the 3rd Staffel.

    The 600th SS-Fallschirmjäger Battalion

    The second Budapest mission, Operation Panzerfaust, it can be said to have been, officially, the 600's first mission although the new battalion was not formally mustered until November 9th 1944 in Neu-Strelitz, their garrison town. The soldiers of the 500th who survived long enough to see the formation of the 600 were also given back their previous ranks and the right to wear the siegrunen on November 9th 1944.

    Two companies of the newly forming SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 were then attached to Otto Skorzeny's Panzerbrigade 150 in December 1944 for the Ardennes. It was the only occasion on which SS paratroopers faced the Western Allies until, fleeing the Soviets, they surrendered to US forces early in May 1945. After the Ardennes, the 600th fought on the Oder Front in the Schwedt and Zehden bridgeheads and in various rearguard actions across Northern Germany at the very end of the war. The battalion was virtually wiped out three times in its eighteen-month existence.

    Uniforms and equipment

    Published photographs show them to be wearing Luftwaffe standard jumpsuits complete with Luftwaffe breast eagles and the Luftwaffe fallschirmjager pattern steel helmet. It was worn with the standard fieldgrey fallschirmjager trousers with either front lacing paratroop boots or cleated mountain boots.Jumpsuits published from photographs also show distinct SS-pattern camouflage.

    Commanders

    *"SS-Sturmbannführer" Herbert Gilhofer (October 1943 - April 1944)
    *"SS-Hauptsturmführer" Kurt Rybka (April 1944 - 26 June 1944)
    *"SS-Sturmbannführer" Siegfried Milius (26 June 1944 - October 1944)

    Studly

    Original photos

    Axis History Factbook: SS-Fallschirmjäger-Bataillon 500
    just like to add that there is an ss falshirmjagers peadot jumpsmock in a museem for the ardennes in belgium i beleive and there are pics of this and the luftwaffe pattern jumpsmocks both shown in cammoflage unifroms of the waffen ss by m d beaver ,thanks for the service info very interesting

  7. #26
    ?

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    Quote by panzerjaeger44 View Post
    just like to add that there is an ss falshirmjagers peadot jumpsmock in a museem for the ardennes in belgium i beleive and there are pics of this and the luftwaffe pattern jumpsmocks both shown in cammoflage unifroms of the waffen ss by m d beaver ,thanks for the service info very interesting

    If these are the ones that I think they are, I thought that there was still some doubt over their authenticity and as to whether they were actually worn/issued.

    Just my two pennorth on a subject that I know very little about guys.

    Regards etc

    Ian D

    AKA: Jimpy

  8. #27

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    not sure jimpy but his book is full of stuff including comparative sections and feild mods so i cant answer as to issue and use only that certainly examples exist

  9. #28
    ?

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    Quote by tampalam View Post
    thatis just the thing, Paul. In all of the photos shown of SS fallschirmjaeger troops, there is not a single shot I can find of a helmet with runes as most are taken from the left of the wearer. I have serious doubts as to whether there ever was a Fallschirmjager helmet with SS runes. I would love to be proven wrong just to see a real example though.
    Many excellent books are now available on the study of German helmets non of which show any contemporay photos or modern shots from even the most advanced collections that show an SS Fallschirmjager helmet . maybe there is one out there somewhere but this isn' t it !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  10. #29

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    With my limited knowledge - I thought decals had been abolished 28th August 1943 ?

    Never seen one like this, ever.........
    Regards,


    Steve.

  11. #30

    Default Re: SS Para Helmet

    never in my 50+ years of collecting or in ANY Helmet/Waffen SS reference book have i seen a Para Helmet with an SS decal,,,do they exist???...,MAYBE...BUT,,,i have only read that the SS paras used Luftwaffe equipment so i believe that they wore non-decaled Para Helmets,,,until photographic proof or a incontrovertible accounted for SS para helmet surfaces,,,,dont put any money down on these,,,,

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