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Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres real?

Article about: hello i have in my hand an attached paratrooper badge,does it looks like an original to You? best regards

  1. #1

    Default Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres real?

    hello i have in my hand an attached paratrooper badge,does it looks like an original to You?
    best regards
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  3. #2

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    Hello Michael I cannot say good or bad. MAP has one of these badges so hopefully he can provide some insight? I would compare this example to yours for comparison. One more thing this is the army not luft version. So search for Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres . Best regards.

    Brian

    Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres... real or fake???

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    Also better pictures of the eagle atop the wreath would help too.

  4. #3
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Quote by bsiwula1 View Post
    Hello Michael I cannot say good or bad. MAP has one of these badges so hopefully he can provide some insight? I would compare this example to yours for comparison. One more thing this is the army not luft version. So search for Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres . Best regards.

    Brian

    Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres... real or fake???

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    Also better pictures of the eagle atop the wreath would help too.
    I was just studying this badge LoL and you beat me to a response. I have a 3rd Pattern, this is a 2nd pattern I think.

    For FULL disclosure, while I have my reference material I have not studied one of these in hand. So my observations should be taken with a note of caution.

    Stay tuned for a few minutes...have a few more things to look at, but from what I see, I'm not convinced so far.

    EDIT: OK, I am eager to hear from others if they agree with my questions/opinions

    I will say however that clearer and higher resolution photos would help me a bit more...my eyes and lack of experience need them....

    But first,..can you confirm if it is an aluminum eagle and wreath? If so....

    1) Rear hardware is consistent with classifying it as a 2nd pattern, that said, I would expect the catch to be C shaped and beveled at the bottom, and not "?"
    2) Second, there are two typical die flaws on the wreath. I can see neither (photo quality?). The first is a "dot" right above the eagles eye on the inside of the oak leaf, the second is a blob on the oak leaf above the top most edge of the wing and Heer eagle on the upper right of the wreath.
    3) Maker marked 2nd patterns are extremely rare. It is hard for my eyes and these photos, but I think I see differences in the "E" and "R" in Juncker. As well as the angle in "Berlin". Maybe just my eyes....and manipulation of the photo

    So far, that is all I have looked at, at this point.

    Just my observations...will let others with more experience tell me if I am right or hopefully wrong.

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    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #4

    Default

    Does anyone have a good photo of "beard" die flaw Ade referred to in the thread I posted. IMO the badge from that thread is more convincing the the OP. But that s just a feeling no time for comparing much at the moment.

    Brian

  6. #5
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    These are the two die flaws I am talking about (sorry 1st and 3rd photos are a bit blurry)

    For what I can see BOTH the OP's and Humble's do NOT have these. My example is a very late war version so it shows that it was present throughout production.

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    Last edited by MAP; 08-14-2017 at 01:37 AM. Reason: pre-school grammar
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #6

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    Quote by MAP View Post
    Having three and in hand no less, you of course are in a better position.

    Better photos from OP would help. It is quite worn however, so might be difficult to determine one way or the other.

    So what is your view of the OP's award. I'm sure you must have some better insight than I given that you have 3 of them. Catch, obverse wreath, eagle, etc.

    Thanks!

    M

    - - ------- - -





    I don't think we are done... Still ? IMHO. I hope I'm wrong.
    No I don't think the original question has been answered yet either.

    I am no expert where these badges are concerned but I do have concerns about the badge at the top of the thread.

    Is it aluminium or zinc? Knowing this really helps.
    It is maker marked which suggests 1st pattern as I believe the 2nd were almost all unmarked. Also is the mark correctly oriented? I have never seen the maker mark parallel to the wing edge like this one.
    The eagle looks like a 2nd pattern with ringed legs in which case shouldn't it be made from zinc (see first point above).
    Also, as MAP says the known wreath flaws are not visible.
    The finish on the OP badge seems well preserved which hints at aluminium rather than zinc (ergo 1st patt not 2nd as the eagles legs suggest).

    Anybody have ideas on this one that will make this thread a reference?

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  8. #7
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    No I don't think the original question has been answered yet either.

    I am no expert where these badges are concerned but I do have concerns about the badge at the top of the thread.

    Is it aluminium or zinc? Knowing this really helps.
    It is maker marked which suggests 1st pattern as I believe the 2nd were almost all unmarked. Also is the mark correctly oriented? I have never seen the maker mark parallel to the wing edge like this one.
    The eagle looks like a 2nd pattern with ringed legs in which case shouldn't it be made from zinc (see first point above).
    Also, as MAP says the known wreath flaws are not visible.
    The finish on the OP badge seems well preserved which hints at aluminium rather than zinc (ergo 1st patt not 2nd as the eagles legs suggest).

    Anybody have ideas on this one that will make this thread a reference?

    Regards

    Mark
    I agree Mark. I don't think we are done. And unless shown what I am missing (always happy to be proven wrong for the OP's sake, hate when I'm proven right), I have doubts about this award. A quick glance gives the impression that it is real but the devil is in the details and from what I am seeing there are some questions that I don't have answers for. (Die Flaw, catch, maker mark, etc. ) Again...hopefully I'm wrong.

    A few observations from Durante's book.

    1) According to Durante's classification system, The 2nd (aka "Standard") pattern is all aluminum. The difference being a completely new eagle. That said there were 2 variations of the 1st pattern eagle. Only with the 3rd pattern did it switch to all zinc. (there was a transitional version but complete diff from the OP's)

    2) The same wreath pattern was used through out whether aluminum or zinc. Also the 2nd pattern eagle and the 3rd pattern are identical except for the materials used and some detail loss due to wear and tear to the dies over time.

    3) Lastly, the maker mark is seen on the 2nd pattern but is considered extremely rare. And the position of the maker marks can vary...

    4) To my eyes, this is a 2nd pattern all aluminum type. In looking closely the wear on the wreath and eagle appears typical as to what "I" would expect to see from aluminum.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  9. #8
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

    Default

    Michal19,

    Would it be possible to get better photos. (especially of the areas in question)

    The link below is a good example of the photo quality / type that would help.

    1st Pattern Schwerin Schnellboot-Kriegsabzeichen Tombak

    I'm only a quasi-novice so all the help I can get is important
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  10. #9

    Default

    Looks like other (highly regarded) opinions have already been given;

    GCA Forum | Access denied.

    GCA is dedicated to the subject of this type of item.

    Regards

    Mark

    I hope the link works for non members but if not I think the comments at least can be seen as a guest.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  11. #10
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

    Default

    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    Looks like other (highly regarded) opinions have already been given;

    GCA Forum | Access denied.

    GCA is dedicated to the subject of this type of item.

    Regards

    Mark

    I hope the link works for non members but if not I think the comments at least can be seen as a guest.
    None other than Mr. De Bock confirming the same points (maker mark, "?" catch).

    Good news is that we were correct. Bad news for our friend Michal19.

    I will say, without a solid reference book, this would have fooled me.

    Just goes to show how good the fakes are getting and how important it is to study the originals....

    Michal: Did you purchase this already?
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

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