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Juncker 3 Pattern Fallschirmschützenabzeichen des Heeres

Article about: Well...after months of layaway I finally picked up my Heer Paratrooper badge. Original posted here when I only had dealer pictures. http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/fallsc...heeres-529248/ But

  1. #11

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    It does seem to be a different catch than all the Juncker Army-Parras in the Tom D Parrabook
    ive been looking cant find one that matches fully as the little plate it sits on. only one type has and that is a "round wire catch" the catch is completely round
    Yours seems to have a straight section

    Yours seems to be the same badge as mine "short hinge with flat wire catch" but with a replaced catch
    I'm just going off the Book here.

    i can post the 3 pics of different types of catches for the 3ed Patten Jucker if that helps?

    But still a rare badge and so nice once they are in hand, there like the King of Parras,

    Best Martin

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  3. #12
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Thanks Martin,

    No need to post pictures. Thanks for the info and leg work in trying to ID it.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #13

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    No problem,

  5. #14

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    Quote by ironcross13 View Post
    It does seem to be a different catch than all the Juncker Army-Parras in the Tom D Parrabook
    ive been looking cant find one that matches fully as the little plate it sits on. only one type has and that is a "round wire catch" the catch is completely round
    Yours seems to have a straight section

    Yours seems to be the same badge as mine "short hinge with flat wire catch" but with a replaced catch
    I'm just going off the Book here.

    i can post the 3 pics of different types of catches for the 3ed Patten Jucker if that helps?

    But still a rare badge and so nice once they are in hand, there like the King of Parras,

    Best Martin
    Hi Martin,

    I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.

    It's a type 'G' badge with a textbook round wire catch (pages 153-155 in Tom Durante's book, as I'm sure you know), that has took a bash (or been deliberately "eased" by the recipient for fitting purposes) and become distorted, that's all. The catch in my opinion is completely original and NOT replaced, if it were how do you explain the complete lack of solder around the catch plate, the original gold coating is undisturbed and does not show the signs of ever being disturbed as it naturally would if replaced??

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #15
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Thanks Ned. I posted it at GHW and two people noted the catch was replaced. As i said in my early comments today and as you too pointed out, I saw no evidence of that but took their comments "in stride".

    As always, I appreciate and highly value all of your feedback, past, present and future...

    thanks again!

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #16

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    very nice addition to your massive, nice collection!

  8. #17

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    Hi Ned, just trying to help with my book, i'm just learning myself sorry if my info was wrong.
    Ive just got my first Heer-Parra so been studying my book.

    Ive been looking at the Heer-Parra section not the luftwaffe section, so i don't understand how it could be a type 'G' badge?
    The 3ed pattern is in page 458-469 there's 3 different types in Zinc.

    Its just with how straight the catch i thought it was a different type of catch, if you look at the last pic of the catch it looks very straight.
    thought it would be hard to bend it into that shape.
    and with the soldering underneath on the front, but i dont know how soldering works
    maybe just the crack was repaired.

    Here is the 3 different types of 3ed Patten Zinc Army catches in the book
    1. is the Short Hinge with Flat Wire Catch
    2. is Short Hinge with Round Wire Catch
    3. is the Long Hinge

    It does look like no.2 but just with the straight section

    Best Martin

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  9. #18

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    Quote by ironcross13 View Post
    Hi Ned, just trying to help with my book, i'm just learning myself sorry if my info was wrong.
    Ive just got my first Heer-Parra so been studying my book.

    Ive been looking at the Heer-Parra section not the luftwaffe section, so i don't understand how it could be a type 'G' badge?
    The 3ed pattern is in page 458-469 there's 3 different types in Zinc.

    Its just with how straight the catch i thought it was a different type of catch, if you look at the last pic of the catch it looks very straight.
    thought it would be hard to bend it into that shape.
    and with the soldering underneath on the front, but i dont know how soldering works
    maybe just the crack was repaired.

    Here is the 3 different types of 3ed Patten Zinc Army catches in the book
    1. is the Short Hinge with Flat Wire Catch
    2. is Short Hinge with Round Wire Catch
    3. is the Long Hinge

    It does look like no.2 but just with the straight section

    Best Martin

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Martin,

    I understand what your saying and to be honest I've made a mistake saying it's a type 'G' badge. What I meant to write was the catch is the same as the type 'G' Luft version. There are many cases in badge production by many makers where hardware was interchangeable due often to unavailability of various types due to war restrictions, and making do with what they had in stock at the time. New examples previously unnoticed are cropping up on forums on a fairly regular basis and is not particularly unusual. For instance, a screw back Meybauer PAB has recently surfaced, unique and undoubtedly genuine.

    As far as the "straight" looking catch goes, if you look at the above unmessed with examples you show, it can be seen how very tight the gap is to be able to close the pin properly. I'm suggesting that the owner may have opened the wire up with some snipe nosed pliers or some such tool to fascilitate the opening and closing of the pin in the catch. At the same time it could have taken a knock or whatever, but I prefer my first guess. I still believe the catch is as originally fitted regardless of what's been said on GHW, but if Mike could supply more close up pic's of it, then we can hopefully be certain either way.

    Regards, Ned.

    Edit: Regarding the 1943 pattern Heer Fallschirmshutzabzeichen, and bearing out my thoughts about interchangeability above, Tom Durante has said, quote: "Also like their Luftwaffe brethren, several variations in the reverse hardware set up can be seen on these zinc badges" (pp.436). But in the above case I feel it's just the standard Juncker round wire catch and baseplate for use on their zinc badges that's been altered one way or another.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #19

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    Hi Ned
    Yeah i thought you got a little mixed up on the type 'G'
    Ahh yes i understand they would use catches and hinges from stuff they had in stock, Tom Durante did cover a lot in his book all fairness to him.

    It does look alot like a type G catch but the little plate its sat on looks quite big but that could be the way it was solder on, i'm sure you know a lot better then me.
    Yeah maybe it did get bent like that, if we had some better pics it could help identifying it.

    Best Martin

  11. #20
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Great discussion guys and great help....sorry for the delay...had to go out and get a new keyboard....

    Here are some more pictures. Not sure if it helps. If need be I can pull out my USB Microscope as I did in the beginning of this thread. Just let me know.

    I stand by my original view and Neds. I do NOT think this is a replaced catch. From these pictures I can even see the original gilding all around the edges of the base plate. That would not be there if it was replaced (IMHO)

    Michael

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    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

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