Fishy MP44 Pouches

**wwmilitaria** · 07-18-2010, 11:39 AM

And the producers of this stuff aren't just one person whos name is "gonna get out". In fact the people I know state clearly that these are reproductions. It is then mostly the "western" dealers and collectors who start circulating the stuff as original. Or in other cases they even contract czech specialists to make a limited edition of a certain item.
You have to look at it from the business point of view, you cannot flood the market as well (see what happened to G43 Mag pouch prices - though I am convinced those are the real thing!).

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-18-2010 11:39 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 02:02 PM

There it is folks -- "western decadence" is to blame!!!!! LOL The fact that wwmilitaria is a dealer who "knows" those IMPECCABLY HONEST lil ol Czech "specialists" puts his opinion(s) in proper context. (in my opinion) Those Czechs certainly are astute marketers -- it didnt appear that anyone was aware of the origin of the style of the "fishy" pouch -- nobody said oh look a fake MKb42 pouch -- first one that I have seen for sale in 45 years of collecting -- FAKE or NOT -- THAT is what you call NOT 'flooding the market". I'm sure the veteran who has kept those "mattress covers" since 1946 will be sad.

**wwmilitaria** · 07-18-2010, 02:20 PM

And which context is that? I am nor diminishing nor defending anyone. I am just giving advice on the state of things from my experiences and what I know. But juast as a reminder: It was you who in the beginning doubted those czech replicas existed. And: I am not a dealer. So what are you saying now? That it is wrong to do your home work and get to know people in order to tell the real thing from fake?
And another reminder: I already put "western" in quotation marks so that your "western decadence" comment is superfluous. I well know that the main intent of these pieces is in last consequence to trick well meaning folk out of there money. But my point is: when you do your homework and learn the possibilities there are in replicas, you make wiser buying decisions.

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 02:45 PM

You say you are not a dealer -- I am mistaken and I apologize. I never said I doubted the existence of these fakes I am merely trying to make the point that too many instances statements are made with no further evidence. I will never believe these people you "know" go to all the trouble you mentioned and are so honest to stand by while others profit from their effort. I have done my "homework" enough to know as I said at least one US army veteran will be sad.

**wwmilitaria** · 07-18-2010, 02:58 PM

Accepted :-) Btw: I never said anything about the pictures you showed: those pouches look legit in my opinion. Well, the two guys I know will. For instance the guy offered me the MP 44 mag pouches now for 600 EUR which is a lot of money for a fake piece of militaria. His friend who makes these things asks for 400 EUR. Leaves the dealer with a profit and the maker with an average month salary in the czech republic in one shot. So you can make a living from it, though he won't become rich. Of course they could trade them off on ebay or the like as the real thing and get the whole sum, but also that will only work so long- negative reviews, more publicity a.s.o.
Check out for example Jaroslav Rezac at militarie-repliky.cz. He doesn't do WWII, but he is one of these small scale craftsmen and he is honest!

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 03:13 PM

Legit "originals" or legit "fakes" ? The matched pair are the same as the "fishy" photo that started this whole thing -- except marked slightly different.

**wwmilitaria** · 07-18-2010, 03:27 PM

Legit originals. The matched pair are the same style, but not the same pair. The marking of RBNr. in the square I have seen many times on original equipment (though markings are nothing to count on).
But my main arguments were: the shape, quality and looks of the leather is the giveaway I think. The leather parts on all your pouches as far as I can see, show real age and the traces of the legit manufacturing process and tools.
While on the questionable piece, the look hand cut out from old leather. On your pouches you can see that the leather has aged in that shape. The D-Rings on your pair have a stable and dark (as I presume) rust coating, or in the other instances show remainder of finish.
The questionable D Ring has an even rust coaing of unfinished steel stored in a dry place, and the small drops (where the rust appears darker and more shiny) are the result of tri-dioxine or some other chemical that makes iron rust fast.
My father and me did a lot of restoring of militaria and also making pieces for completing items from leather, so I know what it looks like to simply bend an old piece of leather and stitchin it somewhere...just like on that pouch in the first pic.