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Lifebouy from the Panzerschiff Graff Spree: Original?

Article about: According to the source Big Ned cited, which said, "The fresh Kaiserrot-paint was a bright red, but this paint quickly faded out to a orange/brown red due to the saliferous environment.

  1. #1

    Default Lifebouy from the Panzerschiff Graff Spree: Original?

    Hi, I wonder if the lifebouy is original or a reproduction? Thanks and regards
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  3. #2

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    well now theres a thing you don't see every day,it looks like the one in the photo as the rope around the edge is fixed in the same places and the writing looks to be the same,is there any photos of the graf spee in colour,maybe you can see if they were the same colour,can you get any provenance regarding the photo?that is your best lead as well,

  4. #3

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    Personally I like it; it has a 'ring' of truth about it! But who knows? Provenance is the only way to go, as far as is possible in this case.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #4
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    Given the ignominious end of the Graf Spee and orderly manner in which the crew got dry land under their collective feet, such a thing from that particular ship of all TR ships would be one of the last items, that I would expect, but everything is possible of course.
    Certainly looks the part.

  6. #5

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    Now that is different , it certainly appears to be the same one as in the image, the rope ties and stitching "ribs" appear to be in identical positions. That said is the image period or post war? It appears to look more like a post war photo that may have been taken as the "present" of the ring was given to a survivor of the scuttling/sinking, or indeed a genuine life ring?? I think this is a very interesting item either way but provenance is the deal breaker with this one. Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

  7. #6
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    As mentioned above, as the Graf Spee was deliberately sunk by its crew in a calm and ordered manner with the vast majority of the crew having already been brought onto dry land beforehand in an equally calm and ordered manner, there was not much use for or reason to remove this item from the ship.
    Only a skeleton crew steamed out with the Graf Spee and scuttled the ship, under controlled circumstances.
    No situation arose in regards to the vessel being scuttled, where such an item was needed.
    Although everything is possible of course.

  8. #7
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    Item from the Graf Spee with solid provenance; salvaged eagle.
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  9. #8

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    Who says it has to have come from the time that the ship was scuttled in the River Plate estuary? It could just as easily been 'liberated' at an earlier time in the ships 3 year history, and there are many potential scenarios that are more likely than blindly assuming that it was recovered after the scuttling of the ship. Then again, that may be the case, but taking that assertation as gospel is pure folly until proven by some provenance either way.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #9
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    As I said anything is possible, but instead of listing every conceivable scenario for the ring to have survived, I naively thought it would suffice to write that anything is indeed possible.
    I merely stated my opinion, about the Graf Spee and items from that ship, as the Spee circumstances are unique.
    You seem to think that a folly for some reason, yet you yourself now start concocting possible scenarios about whether or not it might have been liberated years before the scuttling.
    As Fallschirmjaeger writes, it may have been a later present.
    The scenarios are legion: what would be a folly or gullible would be to believe that the ring is genuine just like that.
    The stories dont matter. What matters is provenance. Without that, the ring itself might as well have emerged out of thin air.

  11. #10

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    You can be a chippy character sometimes Scout. Get over it and move on instead of always being touchy and defensive whenever someone says something you disagree with or don't like, it's not endearing at all.

    I am also taking this oppurtunity to ask directly why it is you have not yet committed yourself to this forum that you have been so prolific on over the best part of the last 6 years, by becoming a paid up member and thereby showing some support to it.

    Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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