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Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

Article about: Hi Guys Great chat going on here. Who would have thought that a bit of old smelly cloth could cause such a dilema ! JPhilip your words of caution are wise, Lars in words of Winston Churchill

  1. #11

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Hi Guys

    Great chat going on here. Who would have thought that a bit of old smelly cloth could cause such a dilema !

    JPhilip your words of caution are wise, Lars in words of Winston Churchill "tread softly and carry a big stick", and Sir Payne's analytical synopsis is genius..................

    so what the hell lets live on the edge...........I'll post some pics taken of the thing in daylight tomorrow !

    cheers

    tony

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Hello Corey,
    Thanks for your reply, you may be right, you may be wrong, but no one will ever know for sure if it's original or not...

    When i started collecting Heer militaria in the late seventies, one of the dealers who had a table within the flea market where i did go all weekends used to sell fake splinter pattern covers to young and unexperienced collectors. They had been made with original Zeltbahnen, some even had foliage loop. They were not reversible of course, but were extremely well made, by his wife....I bought one for 200 francs, which at the time was not cheap for a 10 yrs old boy. If he used to make and sell these fakes it's only because there was a demand, at least in France....in the nineties, he sold 1st type Heer smocks made of BGS camo cloth...


    Corey, do you really think that regulation splinter pattern covers were easy to find and cheap in the seventies ?
    This item was even rare in the german army during WWII...there were not many collectors to own an example in the 70s.
    I may be wrong of course, but i think that in the seventies/eighties, the biggest owner of regulation covers was a french film company called "Pathé Cinéma". All covers from this source bear an ink stamp in circle with the letters PC in it. When they came out for business, most collectors were not ready to believe in them...and they laughed....

    As most dead stocks were found quite recently (in the last 25 years), now a lot of collectors own one...but not back in the seventies...

    Postwar in my country there was plenty of german camo cloth of all nature available for anyone interested, for instance in one of the factories that produced cars for a famous french car manufacturer, when workers had to use a rag or simply wash their hands, they used rags and towels made from WSS pea dots cloth cut in square, and they used them for years and years as the stock was huge...kilometers and kilometers of original WSS camo cloth used as rags and towels....i guess that dozens and dozens of them were binned each week.....and what has been done by some people at the time was to recover some nice pieces of leftover uncut cloth to make hunting clothes, like pants, shirt or jacket, which now could be considered as original privately purchased or field made WSS items....made in brand new cloth, with pro sewing machine, brand new thread, worn for years while hunting giving a nice and homogeneus patina...then stored for years in a closet giving this nice and characteristic old smell...I dont even talk about the thousands and thousands of french hunters, fishermen, mushrooms pickers who had a piece of clothes made from M31 Zeltbahnen...or the french soldiers sent to Indochina who in the early years used a field made garment made from german camo cloth...

    I have seen so many "field made" covers in my collecting life, i heard so many stories about provenances especially from Normandie or Provence....that's why i wrote, save your money for a regulation one or make one yourself....in my opinion that's the only acceptable way to deal with this kind of item if you want to sleep at night...which is an important thing in life...

    Tony : if it's cheap and if you dont care if the cover is original or not, then keep it until you find a regulation one.

    Thanks
    PREUSSENS GLORIA

    In Memoriam :
    Laurent Huart (1964-2008)

  4. #13

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    ive got one much the same as this one i was told it was a fake made in the 70s but he was not 100%. it has white draw strings and a date and numbers stamped in it. i should post images to see what you guys think to

  5. #14

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Quote by JPhilip View Post
    Hello Corey,
    Thanks for your reply, you may be right, you may be wrong, but no one will ever know for sure if it's original or not...

    When i started collecting Heer militaria in the late seventies, one of the dealers who had a table within the flea market where i did go all weekends used to sell fake splinter pattern covers to young and unexperienced collectors. They had been made with original Zeltbahnen, some even had foliage loop. They were not reversible of course, but were extremely well made, by his wife....I bought one for 200 francs, which at the time was not cheap for a 10 yrs old boy. If he used to make and sell these fakes it's only because there was a demand, at least in France....in the nineties, he sold 1st type Heer smocks made of BGS camo cloth...


    Corey, do you really think that regulation splinter pattern covers were easy to find and cheap in the seventies ?
    This item was even rare in the german army during WWII...there were not many collectors to own an example in the 70s.
    I may be wrong of course, but i think that in the seventies/eighties, the biggest owner of regulation covers was a french film company called "Pathé Cinéma". All covers from this source bear an ink stamp in circle with the letters PC in it. When they came out for business, most collectors were not ready to believe in them...and they laughed....

    As most dead stocks were found quite recently (in the last 25 years), now a lot of collectors own one...but not back in the seventies...

    Postwar in my country there was plenty of german camo cloth of all nature available for anyone interested, for instance in one of the factories that produced cars for a famous french car manufacturer, when workers had to use a rag or simply wash their hands, they used rags and towels made from WSS pea dots cloth cut in square, and they used them for years and years as the stock was huge...kilometers and kilometers of original WSS camo cloth used as rags and towels....i guess that dozens and dozens of them were binned each week.....and what has been done by some people at the time was to recover some nice pieces of leftover uncut cloth to make hunting clothes, like pants, shirt or jacket, which now could be considered as original privately purchased or field made WSS items....made in brand new cloth, with pro sewing machine, brand new thread, worn for years while hunting giving a nice and homogeneus patina...then stored for years in a closet giving this nice and characteristic old smell...I dont even talk about the thousands and thousands of french hunters, fishermen, mushrooms pickers who had a piece of clothes made from M31 Zeltbahnen...or the french soldiers sent to Indochina who in the early years used a field made garment made from german camo cloth...

    I have seen so many "field made" covers in my collecting life, i heard so many stories about provenances especially from Normandie or Provence....that's why i wrote, save your money for a regulation one or make one yourself....in my opinion that's the only acceptable way to deal with this kind of item if you want to sleep at night...which is an important thing in life...

    Tony : if it's cheap and if you dont care if the cover is original or not, then keep it until you find a regulation one.

    Thanks
    Thanks JPhilip, now that I understand your reasoning behind your opinion I agree with you. It is good advice not to buy something if there is no possible way to authenticate it. I can see how it would be difficult to conclude if a cover was made in one decade or another. If the wear is nothing to go by then I wholeheartedly agree that it is better to not buy it.

    Corey

  6. #15

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Hi,

    at the risk of stirring things up again, which I have no wish to do so btw, here is the final set of pictures from me.

    Before I post them I think we can agree that there is not a definitive answer to the originality of this piece, I said it was a leap of faith and it shall remain so ! JPhilip is correct to advise those that come after us to buy pieces that are solid in their manufacture and shy away from field made things. Personally I like the odder and more unusual pieces and am well aware of the risks this poses.......

    With that said here they are (it may even be an original reproduction from your local market LPhilip!?

    cheers

    tony

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  7. #16
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Good pics. I somehow get the feeling it's post war made. Mybe the fabric is period. This i can't tell. WH soldiers could of course have access to a sewing machine. It's just my opinion. I can have the wife look at the seams. She's a pro tailor and know stitching like some know EK's

    Regards, Lars

  8. #17

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Hello,
    With this new set of photos, my opinion is now made and it's close to Lars' conclusions.....postwar made, with an already used piece of middle to late war Zeltbahn...and no this one does not come from "my" fleamarket...the ones i was talking about were nicer in confection and had a piece of tiny rope as a draw string...
    Thanks
    PREUSSENS GLORIA

    In Memoriam :
    Laurent Huart (1964-2008)

  9. #18
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    Got some additional info from my wife. She says the stitches are made from an old machine. It's not a modern sewing machine that made it. The stitches are too long. The space between them. Modern machines make shorter space between the stitches. She looked at it about 5 sec to make up her mind. I'm not saying it's period, just that it's made on an old machine.

    Regards, Lars

  10. #19

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    It is getting interesting...
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  11. #20

    Default Re: Opinions welcome on this splinter helmet cover

    yeah, in the sixties and seventies there were a lot of old SINGER still in use...
    My 95 yrs old grandmother still has her Singer sewing machine in perfect condition
    Thanks
    PREUSSENS GLORIA

    In Memoriam :
    Laurent Huart (1964-2008)

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