Tornister Variations ?

[AlecH]

Hi Everyone,
Chatting at the Saturday flea-market with another collector. I mentioned, I had a couple of tornisters, he asked what they were i.e. HJ, SA, Wehrmacht, SS, I had to say, I didn't know, like a idiot, I didn't ask him to explain further, the possible variations or how you identified the different ones. Only got to thinking it over a few hours later.
Asking now, could anyone say how you can differentiate between the various tornisters. I understand the SS tornisters have the rune stamp and possibly the Hj have their own stamp, but psychically were they different?, perhaps the HJ tornisters were smaller, or were there different strap layouts between SA and Wehrmacht tornisters? Looking at the two I have outwardly they look the same, inside one has a wooden frame, the other is without a frame. Does anyone have some information.
Regards

[JPhilip]

Hello,
There are three main haversacks, M07/13, M34 & M39.
The M07/13 was used by the Imperial army and the Reichswehr, but was superceeded by the M34 in the German Army. TR Political and paramilitary organisations still used the M07/13, including early SS troops. In 1939, the M39 was adopted.
The 07/13 has four leather loops for the messkit sewn on the front flap and it comes with carrying straps. The M34 has no loop for the messkit sewn on the front flap and it comes with carrying straps (messkit is carried in a small pouch sewn inside the haversack). The M39 has one vertical loop with quick release sewn at the bottom of the front flap for retaining the A-frame and comes with or without carrying straps. Troops that were isssued infantry Y-straps received the version without carrying straps (replaced by two hooks), while troops with no Y-straps received the version with carrying straps. All of them were produced with a pony fur front flap (and some without fur)...and it was called "Affe" in the German Army
Hope it helps...
Thanks

[Neil Hever]

I think they used cow hide - not pony fur. And Affe is a reference to an ape because a soldier wearing one looked like he had a hairy ape back! NH

[JPhilip]

yes perhaps it's calf, not pony

[AlecH]

Hello JPhilip,
Thanks for all your information - a great help. Looking at my two tornisters, I know now, I've a text book MO7/13 and a M39 tornister without straps, both are cow hide. One thing different on my M39 tornister from your description is four D - rings (two at the top, two on bottom) no two replacement hooks - should it be hooks or D-rings? Looking at Y - straps they have two hooks to take the top D-rings would the bottom D-rings be attached to the soldiers belt?
I shall now be on the look out for a M34 and M39 with straps to complete my collection. Once again thanks for your post.
Best Wishes

[JPhilip]

Hello Alec,
I'm positive, there shouldn't be D-rings on the M39 Tornister itself....but two carrying straps or two small leather tabs with hooks. There are no hooks fitted on the standard issue german WWII Y-straps to carry the Tornister, a backpack or a A-frame, only D-rings.....i mean, as far as we're talking about general issue items for the WWII basic german soldier...if you had pics, it would be helpful i guess.
Thanks

[JPhilip]

Hello again Alec,
Here are two pics :

1- Back of a M39 Tornister showing the two leather tabs with hooks.

2- Two D-rings on the M39 Infantry Y-straps.

Hope it helps
Thanks

[AlecH]

Hi JPhilip,
Here's a couple pictures of my tornister - the d-rings are visible. I did look on Ebay Germany, someone is selling the four different Tornisters together, one has the same d-ring layout as mine, unfortunately I couldn't drag the picture onto my P.C. I did manage two pictures of a Y- Riemen with hooks. Could you take a look,tell me what you think, hope we are not talking at cross purposes.
Best Wishes

[JPhilip]

Hello Alec,
I see where the problem is....your Tornister is incomplete.
As you can see if you compare my pic of the Tornister, and yours...your Tornister lacks the tabs with hooks (or carrying straps). They should be inserted in the two slits visible inside the red "circles".
The D-rings that you can see on your Tornister are meant to fasten the A-frame onto the flap of the Tornister when not in use.
The hooks at the bottom of each strap on your Y-straps are meant to be secured to the D-rings of the ammo pouches...
You need to find carrying straps or tabs with hooks for your Tornister...
Thanks

[JPhilip]

On this picture, you can see a A-frame fastened to the D-rings at the top of the front flap of a M39 Tornister. The leather tabs with hooks are also visible behind...
Thanks