zeltbahn made with italian camo

[Zeller]

This zeltbahn was found in northern Slovenia. Although the camo cloth is genuine italian from ww2, the cut is not for an italian zelt. My guess is that was field made by german soldiers, operating in those areas. It is huge and rectangular shape (in the pic is folded because I couldn't take it all otherwise)

[lammy]

Here is my Italian Camo...!!! German Made Zeltbahn...!!!

[JPhilip]

Hello,
Zeller : that's an interesting piece of camo material. I agree with your comment, most probably field made.

Lammy : this is a neat Zeltbahn...those Zelts made of italian camo cloth are great. It has the nicest colours as well...good score. Any markings left ?
Thanks

[lammy]

No german marking´s that i can find.Definately not field made, these where made on order from captured stock´s of Italian Camo after 1943...
By the way your´s is not fieldmade, it´s an original italian poncho (zeltbahn) pre 1943...
http://www.zeltbahn.net/it_camo.htm

[JPhilip]

No german marking´s that i can find.Definately not field made, these where made on order from captured stock´s of Italian Camo after 1943...
By the way your´s is not fieldmade, it´s an original italian poncho (zeltbahn) pre 1943...
Zeltbahn.net - Italian camouflage pattern

Hello,
These Zeltbahnen made of italian camo are not field made, but regulation & factory productions. Some were made with post September 43 captured italian camo cloth, but the majority of the production was done upon commercial contracts between Germany and italian companies from Northern Italy.

No...sorry, the camo poncho posted by Zeller is not an "original italian poncho pre 43".....it is a field made item.
By the way, squared italian shelter quarters of which the official designation was "M29 Tela mimetizzata" were made well after 1943...perhaps unitl 1982 or 1983.
Thanks

[lammy]

Thank´s you for the update, without better pics i cant really see, what would make the above Italian poncho "fieldmade".
Judging by the brown stripe down the middle, could be a field repair.

While color can also help identify post-war shelter halves and ponchos, due to the large variations found in original wartime pieces, color alone should not be used to determine originality. Typically post-war colors can tend to have more of a turquoise hue to the green and the light greenish yellow can have almost a mustard type appearance. Currently on the market are large number of post-war & Belgian shelter halves and ponchos that look almost identical to Italian pieces but are easily recognized as the camo printing has a sort of rippled edge to the colors instead of soft, organic feel.

Another detail you can use to identify a wartime example is it's construction. Narrow Italian material was printed & joined in the middle to to make a single shelter half. Wartime examples have the brown color conjoining in the middle (see image below) creating a noticeable line. After the war, the actual printing process of the cloth was altered.

see this page Italian Camouflage / der Erste Zug

[JPhilip]

what would make the above Italian poncho "fieldmade".

Hello,
Due to its construction and details, it is obvious that this shelter quarter is not factory made. I do own three wartime Tele Mimetizzate and they all have features that can't be seen here :
lack of U-shaped neck piece, lack of sewn grommets, lack of buttons....the construction is very poor here, nothing to see with one factory made.
Thanks

[Zeller]

Interesting development of the discussion! My zeltbahn was found in a old barn in northern Slovenia, together with other german stuff. It is not unusual to find also italian stuff in the southern part, but as JPhilip wrote the italian "teli tenda" have a different cut and manufacturing.

[lammy]

Welcome Zeller...!!! Not questioning your piece of camo at all, just trying to shed a little light. I know my piece is factory made and have been seearching, the internet for similar piece´s, infact i found one or two other´s (german helmet walhalla,wehrmacht awards). Have been wondering why some people are saying that these zelt´s are pretty common. When infact they seem less common than both waffen patterns and even italian designed poncho´s.

Any chance of a few more pictures of some of the details, ie. what about, buttons, button holes and grommets...??
Another thought of mine was that, the flap had been removed or damaged, therefore field repaired. Is your zelt in anyway bigger or smaller than a factory made italian one..???

Lammy

[Zeller]

Hello Lammy,

I actually never found any factory made zeltbahn with italian camo M29 yet. So I believe they must be pretty rare. I don't think they were manufactured in Italy though.
On mine there are no buttons at all and no signs of repair or removed parts. I will post more details shortly. It is larger than standard italian M29, and rectangular shaped.