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Need help iding my circa 1938 Nazi Ansbach/4 Parade Flag

Article about: I am not familiar with the identification attributes on Nazi Party Parade flags because of their scarcity and lack of website information. My Nazi Party Parade flag approximately 45 in. x 47

  1. #11

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    Quote by slados28 View Post
    Good to hear! And if you take the time to read Bob Coleman's post you'll realize there's no doubt about the color, simply because Kreis (white piping) would not have had had any numbers on the corner patch as they were each one of a kind. So that leave us with light blue in possibly some kind of metallic thread, there were none with "silver" as such, for Ortsgruppe, as already identified here and obviously by you on another forum or the like.

    Nicely displayed btw! Love the meatball flags!
    Kreis corner patches were trimmed in black, not white. The change to white Kreis color was part of the 1939 NSDAP "Golden Pheasants" uniform modification. By 1939, all Kreis offices would already have their flag so in any case, it would never be white.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

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  3. #12

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    Thank you for the correction! Somehow I had totally blocked out the fact that black was the earlier Kreis color... taking that into consideration it makes sense that there probably wasn't a whole lot of flags with the later white piping after all, I'm guessing unless replacements or more flags were needed after 1939 for whatever reason. Ever seen white piped corner patches on any of these flags?

    Either way, I'm guessing I would be correct in saying that there was no such thing as a silver color, like the original poster was speculating, making this no doubt light blue piping for Ortsgruppe possibly with some metallic content in the thread making it look similar to a silver color...

  4. #13

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    Quote by slados28 View Post
    Thank you for the correction! Somehow I had totally blocked out the fact that black was the earlier Kreis color... taking that into consideration it makes sense that there probably wasn't a whole lot of flags with the later white piping after all, I'm guessing unless replacements or more flags were needed after 1939 for whatever reason. Ever seen white piped corner patches on any of these flags?

    Either way, I'm guessing I would be correct in saying that there was no such thing as a silver color, like the original poster was speculating, making this no doubt light blue piping for Ortsgruppe possibly with some metallic content in the thread making it look similar to a silver color...
    I think your assumption is correct. The corner patch embroidery is quite unusual and likely locally made. I have only seen one Kreis level fahne and it was a DAF flag with a black trimmed corner patch. Flags were honored and preserved and a replacement would be very unlikely unless the original was burnt.

    - - ------- - -
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  5. #14
    ?

    Smile Trying to understand the NAZI admistrative levels

    Again thanks very much for your detailed flag id. Subsequently, I browsed the internet trying to locate detailed maps or charts for Ortgruppe levels but was unsuccessful. However, I did find an excellent color coded map of Nazi administrative levels in 1944 at:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erung_1944.png

    My focus of interest was "Ansbach". I enlarged the map's "Gau Franken" area. Additionally displayed on the map was a related chart. I did screen captures of both (attached). Please confirm or correct my interpretations of both attachments.

    a. "Ansbach" is located in "Gau Franken" which according to the chart is Gau 7. The "Gau Franken" headquarters was located in "Nurenberg -O".

    b. "Kr." is an abbreviation for the "Kreise" level and lists 11 Kreise administrative levels in "Gau Franken". That number matches the 11 Kreise level administrative divisions shown on the map with "Ansbach" being one of the 11. Unfortunately, neither the map nor chart mention the "Ortgruppe" level.

    c. "Ansbach" was both a "Kreise" administrative level and an "Ortgruppe" administrative lower level containing at least four political administrative subdivisions.

    Please make any confirming or correcting comments regarding my interpretation of the attached "Gau Franken" map section and chart.

    Do you or anyone have any search recommendations or known links for "Ortgruppe" level charts, maps or forum discussions?

    Thanks

    John
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #15

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    I think it sounds like you've got the right idea --- at least four Ortsgruppe (going by the number on your flag but I'm guessing there were more) within Kreis Ansbach, which again was situated in Gau Franken. Would have been interesting to have seen a map also denoting the different Ortsgruppe areas but the map you've found here is a really nice one either way!

    I'll leave it up to Coleman to correct any bad info/interpretations... we have come this far and I have already learned a lot!

  7. #16

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    Re the Ansbach corner patch flag, it was also previously posted on the WAF at ...
    Need help iding circa my 1938 SA Parade Flag - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    There was a couple of negative reviews on it as well.....

    Cheers,

    Bob

  8. #17

  9. #18

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    NSDAP Ortsgruppe-flags (Ortswaltung) should not include a number
    (nor should Kreiswaltung);
    a patch as this was in use by a concern (Betrieb Analog der Ortswaltung).
    When there existed more than one flag, the numbers were likewise
    and so it could be Ansbach 2, 3 or 4 (Information from the Amtliches
    Nachrichtenblatt der DAF), nr. 7 from March 7, 1936. Order 13/36
    ).
    The braid along the patch should be a lighter blue; Kreis had redbrown patch
    with black edging.
    However a pact as this should be positioned onto a DAF-flag with the
    cogwheel.

    I do not like the embroidery for the letters, furthermore what does mean
    D.R.G.V. ? I have never come across this abbreviation in any of the flag-
    or other regulations. If it would have been D.R.G.M. then it could not go
    along with an RZM-indication. Something is not correct!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  10. #19

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    In regards only to the stamping process of the DRGM lettering ..the "M" is visibly faint. Yet this comment does not support the authenticity of the stamping belonging to the Flag. Regards Larry
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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  11. #20

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    Thanks Larry, I had not seen it correctly. My old eyes were blurry!
    It is indeed an M. As said DRGM does not go along with RZM.

    Can't see the exact color for the braid along the patch. Orts should
    be a lighter blue! If in later years also for NSDAP-flags numbers
    were to be included is not mentioned. The Organisationsbuch der
    NSDAP
    (1943) doesn't mention this.
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 01-15-2015 at 02:52 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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