SA 14 / J 23 Flag.
Hi gentlemen,
Can you please help me to locate the good SA Standarte 23 in association with this flag?
I found 4 Standarte 23.
1) SA Obergruppe Ost
SA Brigade 18
SA Standarte 23 "Neisse".
2) SA Gruppe Ostmark / 1942 Gruppe Oder
SA Jäger Standarte 23
Fürstenwalde - Landsberg/W.
3) SA Gruppe Bayerische Ostmark
SA Reserve Standarte 23.
4) SA Gruppe Westmark
SA Jäger Standarte 23
Kayserslautern.
Thank you for replies.
Best regards from Alsace , France.
Carfin.
According to my list, which is undated (pulled directly from NARA film rolls), there was also a Jäger Standarte 23 for Gruppe Niedersachsen located in Bockenem.
Sydney
Carfin, please specify where you found the information for the Standarte with number 23?
For example I cannot find a J23 in the 1942 OSAF-address-list (Oder).
As Sydney says: there is just one J23 at Niedersachsen (Bockenem).
Just true Jägerstandarte were allowed to use the J-indication! "Neisse" (Schlesien) was not allowed
to use the J, nor was a reserve-Standarte allowed. The 23 at Kaiserslautern was a regular Standarte.
The unit for Fürstenwalde was 37; the unit for Landsberg was 48. So, just Bockenem remains!!
By the way: the braid along the patch is not a correct form!
Hi gentlemen,
Thank you very much for the infos.
I found the infos on internet: "Listing of all SA units".
Best regards from Alsace , France.
Carfin.
My information comes from official address-lists from the Oberste SA-Führung.
Most lists seen on the Internet are not correct.
What is the background color for the patch? If dark-brown the flag is from
Niedersachsen. The edge for that should be gold, but as said the pattern is
not an official form, which here is a Draht- or Bandtresse. It looks as a cheap
edge of haberdashery! It should be a simple golden cord.
Hi gentlemen,
Why had the braid around the patch not a good form? Please.!!!!!
Best regards from Alsace , France.
Carfin.
Hi gentlemen,
OK Wilhelm, thank you for infos.
The background is black.
The lettering is white
Best regards from Alsace , France.
Carfin.
Best regards from Alsace , France.
Carfin.
I do not know for who and what this black is; the number should
have a green tone (Jäger- und Schützenstandarten). Light-green
when the color for the patch was dark and dark-green when the
color for the patch was light in color (order I Nr. 1493/33 from
September 2, 1933 and order 149 from September 19, 1938: bei
allen Jäger- und Schützenstandarten sind die Nummern in grüner
Farbe).
None of the mentioned SA-groups, you mention, did use black:
1) Neisse should be sulphur yellow;
2) Ostmark (the later Oder) = pinkish red;
3) Bayerische Ostmark = light-blue
4) Westmark = dark-brown
The one J23 which indeed exists is Niedersachsen, which should
be dark-brown also. According order FO 2b 13723 from November
28, 1938 the patch should have the color for the district. The
cord should be golden with a 4.0 mm width.
I would not know how to arrange your patch? And so I start to doubt!
Hi gentlemen,
For me and friends, your photos are also a black color, a little fade, but black, it is perhaps a photo light problèm.
If you look your photos ,se second patch cord is thiker than the first.!!!!!.
I have absolutely no doubt about your expérience & I am very thankfull for your help.
I would better examine the color of the patch.
OK the story made not the originality of the item, but I have this flag about 48 years.!!!!
Best regards from Alsace , France.
J 10 (post 5) is also for Bockenem and the patches actually are very
dark-brown and so should be the patch for J23. This J23 was first
included in the OSAF-lists with the date July 1, 1937 and was a part
of brigade 59 (Oberharz). During the war it was a part of brigade
58 (Braunschweig).
Anyway the braid along your patch is bogus and should not be there.
The stitching for the J and numbers are not as according to as it should.
In my opinion your flag has been put together many years ago. There
are no frings and the edges should not be sewn as in the way with
your flag. Further there should be rings, not carabine-hooks. Then the
flag should have anyway frings and other aspects, as and according to
1938-orders.
It is known to me that with the entry of mid-May 1941 numbers for
Jägerstandarten became white instead of green (order St. Ch.
Nr. 13 708 from May 20, 1941 mentions this specifically). And....
if this was a late war flag, then there should be a silvered cord
around the patch and not a golden braid!
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