help IDing this RKT please.

Wuerstenfuchs · 04-01-2009, 04:14 PM

by history-buff1944

Hi Odessa, thanks for showing a photo of him. Your correct though, and he wrote a book detailing every RKT - which you can still buy from Andre Heusken if you want a copy? Im thinking about ordering a 2nd copy because the one I now have is getting well-abused and dirty, marked up and such-thanks to research and making notations about things. Also, if you buy this book-make sure you get a copy with the red cover and not the green one because the green one is the older book and is full of errors and many names not listed that should have been. Also, the red edition still does not list Sepp Allerberger as an RKT.

I wonder why Sepp Allerberger does not get the credit he deserves? He won the RK on Hitler's BD in 1945, but others did, too, they are recorded... He was a helluva shot! Over 250 sniper kills as I recall! Here is a foto of him.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 04-01-2009 04:14 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**history-buff1944** · 04-01-2009, 04:17 PM

Hi Odessa, I can't say but he most likely slipped through the cracks-when it came to Herr Fellgiebel doing the list for his book. I also have the same photo of him you have-having just recieved it about 6 or so weeks ago. I tried getting his unit info from him but he didn't send it along. I'd like to get even his basic info so I can write it into the book. You already helped me by telling when he recieved his RK ;-D

Wuerstenfuchs · 04-01-2009, 04:35 PM

by history-buff1944

Hi Odessa, I can't say but he most likely slipped through the cracks-when it came to Herr Fellgiebel doing the list for his book. I also have the same photo of him you have-having just recieved it about 6 or so weeks ago. I tried getting his unit info from him but he didn't send it along. I'd like to get even his basic info so I can write it into the book. You already helped me by telling when he recieved his RK ;-D

Sepp fought with the 2nd Batallion of the 144th Gebirgsjager Regiment of the 3rd Mountain Division, with 257 confirmed kills. He was awarded the RK by GFM Ferdinand Schoerner on April 20, 1945.

**Paul D** · 04-01-2009, 05:00 PM

Carl i've rechecked my Fellgiebel and other RK books and can find Kiefer but not Kiwe where is the name change listed ?

As far as Allerberger goes no official documentation exists nor affadavits or personal witnesses of his award so unfortunatley he doesn't figure in official lists.Schorner actually had no official authority to make the awards that he did they were arbitary descisions on his part and therefore they are not recognised.

Fellgiebel was the Chairman of the OdR Awards commision and as such began research in the 1980's to update the list of known RKT's.

regards

Paul

Wuerstenfuchs · 04-01-2009, 05:25 PM

by Paul E

Carl i've rechecked my Fellgiebel and other RK books and can find Kiefer but not Kiwe where is the name change listed ?

As far as Allerberger goes no official documentation exists nor affadavits or personal witnesses of his award so unfortunatley he doesn't figure in official lists.Schorner actually had no official authority to make the awards that he did they were arbitary descisions on his part and therefore they are not recognised.

Fellgiebel was the Chairman of the OdR Awards commision and as such began research in the 1980's to update the list of known RKT's.

regards

Paul

Regarding Kiwe- if you look up Kiefer on line at the RKT site it shows the same foto that I own. So Kiwe is Kiefer, and vice verse. As to Schorner, it is indeed unfortunate (for Sepp) that the guys in charge did not share Schorner's opinion that 257 sniper kills warranted a RK!

**Paul D** · 04-01-2009, 05:49 PM

Unfortunatley for Allerberger it's not that they didn't believe him or that he hadn't done enough to deserve one but with no official confirmation of the award he like others will never be officialy recognised.

Again unfortunately others have claimed to have been awarded the RK and it has been proved that they are complete frauds and theer claims are false eg Frithhof Elmo Porsch etc.

**Paul D** · 04-01-2009, 06:20 PM

More news apparently Kiefer became an actor after the war and changed his name to Til Kiwe !!

He was in the Great escape and the longest day amonst others !!1

**history-buff1944** · 04-01-2009, 06:56 PM

by Paul E

Carl i've rechecked my Fellgiebel and other RK books and can find Kiefer but not Kiwe where is the name change listed ?

As far as Allerberger goes no official documentation exists nor affadavits or personal witnesses of his award so unfortunatley he doesn't figure in official lists.Schorner actually had no official authority to make the awards that he did they were arbitary descisions on his part and therefore they are not recognised.

Fellgiebel was the Chairman of the OdR Awards commision and as such began research in the 1980's to update the list of known RKT's.

regards

Paul

Hi Paul, thanks for the additional info on Allerberger. I can't remember in what or where but, I did see Allerberger wearing an RK. I bet you are correct though--he's probably not recognized as such. When I wrote to him a couple of months ago, he didn't answer any questions concerning him having been awarded the RK. I wonder if since he's not officiallly recognized-I wonder if that's why he will not answer any questions pertaining to getting an RK?

Odessa is correct about the name used for Tillman Kiwi though. I looked up in Fellgiebels book at the pages near the front of the book that listed several examples of what names those RTKs went by. I think there is another section towards the rear of the book that has the names again? I can't recall about that but-there is a page or so dedicated to their name variants which is near the beginning and before any of the listings for the RKTs are made. I wish I had my book with me today but don't or i'd tell you what page(s) th at info is on. Ernst Barkmann is also listed on the same page with his variant name using Schmuck-Barkmann instead of just Barkmann ;-))

**Paul D** · 04-01-2009, 07:14 PM

Allerberger sends out a photo with a RK doctored onto it !!

I know the pages now i just didn't look there , what sort of researcher am i !!!

**history-buff1944** · 04-01-2009, 10:05 PM

by Paul E

More news apparently Kiefer became an actor after the war and changed his name to Til Kiwe !!

He was in the Great escape and the longest day amonst others !!1

Hi Paul, Odessa, I owe both of ou a huge debt of gratitude. Odessa, thanks so much for his unit and other info. I hadn't been able to buy Sepps book yet and was wondering if this is where the info came from? Ans if so, what's your impression of his book? I plan on ordering it along with Finnish Sniper Simo Hayah (SP?)

Paul, as they say in the commericals over here: "WOW, I could have had a V-8!" Til Kiwi!!!-I had a nagging feeling that Tilman Kiwis name was somehow very familiar even though I never heard that version of his name before. Being a war movie/classics movie buff, it never occurred to me that this could be him.

I like the fact that the three of us are on the threashold of some not well-known info here.

You know, i've always been a fan of Til Kiwi-since I saw him in Decision Before Dawn, The Great Escape and Hannible Brooks.

Paul, your onw heck of a researcher as well as Odessa is, and look at what we got from what you two guys did ;-D