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NSDAP group photo

Article about: Hello, fellow WRF-Members! I'm not a photo-collector, but every now and then I add one to the collection. Here I am sharing with you one group photo that I just recently acquired. It measure

  1. #1

    Default NSDAP group photo

    Hello, fellow WRF-Members!

    I'm not a photo-collector, but every now and then I add one to the collection. Here I am sharing with you one group photo that I just recently acquired. It measures 23 x 17 cm and nicely shows various organizations in just one single photograph. Nothing spectacular, no high ranking Third Reich leaders, just the ordinary people of the Reich. But that's what I like about this photo and I guess it will display nicely in the collection with some other political stuff.

    Has anybody any idea at what time this photo may have been taken? Some unforms may be helpful to find out but I'm far from being a uniform-expert yet. So... any help on that will be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers, M. Baecker
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2

    Default Re: NSDAP group photo

    Quote by Baecker View Post
    Has anybody any idea at what time this photo may have been taken? Some unforms may be helpful to find out but I'm far from being a uniform-expert yet.
    Very likely a pre-war image; we can see pre-1938 shoulder straps on the Hitler Youth members, pre-1939 cap badges and collar patches on the NSDAP Political Leader etc. However, with transitional phases, wearing-out periods and unoffical continued wear of obsolete items, it is hard to be 100% certain.

    Anyway, the SA men are wearing the SA national emblem in the form introduced in June 1937 (= wide-winged eagle), so the photograph was certainly not taken before that date.

  4. #3

    Default Re: NSDAP group photo

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    However, with transitional phases, wearing-out periods and unoffical continued wear of obsolete items, it is hard to be 100% certain.
    Thanks a lot for your help and detailed explanation.

    So, even though not totally sure, it could be said with some confidence that this photo is most likely from winter 1937/38 as there is also some snow still around.

    By the way, shouldn't the PL's visor have the cockade? It seems to be missing. Any ideas on that? Also a little weird is, that the PL seems to have pinned his party badge to knot of his tie. A little lower it should look better.

    Cheers, M. Baecker

  5. #4

    Default Re: NSDAP group photo

    Alright, I found it in "Uniformen der Braunhemden" (1934) pages 60 and 61-63. According to that book there's no cockade on a PL's visor during that period of time. Also, the same book says that no party badge should be worn by that PL... neither on the tie, nor on it's knot. I guess, I still have a lot to learn when it comes to those various types of uniforms.

    Cheers, M. Baecker

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #5

    Default Re: NSDAP group photo

    Quote by Baecker View Post
    Alright, I found it in "Uniformen der Braunhemden" (1934) pages 60 and 61-63. According to that book there's no cockade on a PL's visor during that period of time.
    Slightly simplified*), it broke down like this: At first, the NSDAP's Political Leaders wore only a National Emblem [= cap eagle] which was initially positioned on the front of the visored cap, partly upon the cap band and partly upon the cap top, as seen in the above illustration and as worn by the PL in the photograph.
    A May 1934 order shifted the eagle's position fully to the cap top. The cockade was officially introduced in the August of 1935 and a cockade wreath in 1939.
    Of course, that doesn't mean that everybody immediately updated their insignia accordingly. The PL in this photograph obivously didn't, since the photo was not taken before 1937.


    Quote by Baecker View Post
    Also, the same book says that no party badge should be worn by that PL... neither on the tie, nor on it's knot.
    Actually, the relevant sentence does not exclusively refer to the Corps of Political Leaders but to Party uniforms in general and is also a bit vague: "Beim kleinen Dienstrock wird das Parteiabzeichen neuerdings nicht mehr auf der Krawatte getragen." ["Lately, the Party Badge is no more worn on the tie with the 'small' service tunic."] This could mean that it was to be worn in a different position, i.e. on the breast pocket.

    However, the 1937 Organisationsbuch der NSDAP still states that the party badge was to be worn on the tie (and also shows this on its uniform plates**):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The 1943 Organisationsbuch shows Political Leaders wearing their Party Badges on the left breast pocket. (I don't have that edition, but plates from it are reproduced in several secondary works.***)

    So, at some point, the regulations shifted the positioning of the Party Badge from the tie to the breast pocket, but its wear was not abolished. (Maybe another member has more detailed reference on PL uniform regulations and can elaborate on this matter.)



    *) There were also changes to the patterns of eagle and cockade etc.
    **) example: http://warrelics.eu/forum/military_p...7-img_3634.jpg
    ***) for example Angolia's and Clark's works on NSDAP uniforms
    Last edited by HPL2008; 04-05-2011 at 06:59 AM.

  7. #6

    Default Re: NSDAP group photo

    Thanks again for your detailed, most interesting and educating post. I very much appreciate your time and effort.

    Due to the detailed explanation above it's actually unnecessy... but let me just add a piece of period reference here supporting part of what has been said about the cockade and national emblem. Again that's from the 1934 book "Uniformen der Braunhemden".

    Cheers, M. Baecker

    Click image for larger version. 

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