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Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

Article about: Gents, This signed postcard has been flagged to me as being a fake. I have read a discussion about it on another forum where it was outed. As it is for sale here, I would like it to be discu

  1. #1
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    Default Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    Gents,

    This signed postcard has been flagged to me as being a fake. I have read a discussion about it on another forum where it was outed. As it is for sale here, I would like it to be discussed on this forum and if members are in agreement I will pull the ad.

    Heinrich Bleichrodt signed postcard.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    Here is an original Bleichrodt signature for comparison.
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    I don't like it at all. The sig is very different.

    Cheers, Ade.
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  5. #4
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    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    His is a signature that i am not familar with and there are certainly differences between the two shown , can you send me the link to the other discussion Adrian so i can peruse it ?

    I think as there is also a historical story connected with this sale we'll see what the selling members version is !!

    cheers

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    It's ok Adrian i've found it in the other place !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?



    I hope Matt will be able to provide us with an explanation.......?

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    I am quite sure it's not the same person that have signed these two cards. A signature can of course evolve over time, but there is not the same "flow" in these two. Especially the first name i will assume is Heinrich. There is of course many other issues with signature No.1.

    Regards, Lars

  9. #8

    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    guys i am always very uncomfortable making calls on signatures.

    they do change over the course of a person's life, but they also change according to the circumstances and environment in which they were signed.

    i've signed checks riding in a car on a bumpy road, standing in line at the bank and put my signature on bare paper items with nothing stiff behind the paper other than my own knee. i've signed things on a flat table sitting in a comfortable chair.

    if you were to take a random lot of 100 of my signatures and if simply "looking too different" were the standard, you'd toss out 50 of them as being fake.

    i guess my point is that were i collecting these things i'd like to see the signature match a known example. of course. but you really need a graphologist to make a call on these things. and this would be a very tedious process involving extensive knowledge and examination of a very large volume (hopefully) of a person's writing samples. you need that volume so you get those samples signed in a hurry, on poor surfaces or no surface at all and those examples when the person was standing in a crowd or sitting or all other manner of things.

    i took a pen and "forged" the reference signature here and i can easily get it "apparently" closer than the signature on the card being sold. the signature could be fake. but it could be real. if it's fake, why can i do a better job just trying here without practising? if it's real, why is it so apparently different? i just don't know.

    there are elements which look correct to me, such as the disconnect between the last letter in the first name and the disconnect between the first and second syllable of the last name.

    but, as pointed out, there are differences. and again, these could be due to a myriad of environmental or age (the writer's) related factors we just don't know.

    for me personally, i am not qualified to make the call. it is for a qualified graphologist with access to many examples of the subject signature at hand to make.

    i would be uncomfortable seeing an ad pulled for this without a professional analysis that rejects the possibility the writing is good. this seems to me something that a buyer of autographed items must grapple with himself and come to his own conclusions as to the risk he is taking.

    just my opinion here.

    i know it's hilarious, but just for fun here is my attempt at copying the guy's signature with a turquoise roller-ball pen with zero practise:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    mine's bad. but it's not as "bad" as the one being sold. which makes me wonder: if it's fake, why is it so bad? because i could krank out better fakes all day with no effort. and, of course, maybe it is bad. maybe it's just THAT bad.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    Taken from the seller's description:

    "My Grandfather who was a Luftwaffe Bomber Pilot was on leave in August of 1944 in Munich and ran into Lieutenant Coammander Bleirchrodt at the Naval mess. He was very engaging and thoughtful and he and my Grandfather talked for about 30 minutes, sharing photos of their wives and other family pictures and talking about skiing. When my Grandfather asked for Bleichrodt to sign a envelope my Grandfather had on him, Bleichrodt turned to his admin and asked for a card and produced a Hoffmann Card and signed it for my Grandfather without hesitation."

    Therefore, Bleichrodt apparently had an Admin who carried around photos of him for autograph hunters and signed the card within the mess, not in a bumpy car, not using someone else's back as a rest but you have to assume on a decent surface within the confines of the mess.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Possible fake signed photo in the classifieds?

    I do Not like the "H" and that would be the most significant letter in the signature. It is almost completely different from the known example shown. The second most significant would, of course, be the "B". This "B" also bears no resemblance to the known example shown. The first letters in anyone's signature are always the most important and are generally the most consistent. The other letters are, more or less, variable, depending on the circumstance of the signing, the age of the signer, the condition of the signer and so forth. At one time, I collected autographs and spent quite a deal of time, money and years of effort learning the ropes of the hobby, and This signature is Not one I would give a green light on. I do not believe it to be genuine.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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