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Somewhat Interesting photo to share-

Article about: Hi guys, Just acquired a studio portrait that was interesting (to me), and maybe to some others and figured I'd share and hear some comments. This Feldwebel is wearing a World War 1 1914 Iro

  1. #1
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    Default Somewhat Interesting photo to share-

    Hi guys,
    Just acquired a studio portrait that was interesting (to me), and maybe to some others and figured I'd share and hear some comments.

    This Feldwebel is wearing a World War 1 1914 Iron Cross 2nd class, but wears the WW2 EK2 Ribbon on his bar! He looks pretty young to me.......and I'm assuming he did not serve in ww1......

    His board seems to say "86", but I'm guessing it is probably "36" for Flak Rgt 36....? Ive looked into other possible units, but nothing. (flak rgt 86 doesn't make sense, as the unit wasn't started until May 43, after this photo)



    Questions/Interests:


    - Was this a known practice to do on uniforms, even for men who had earned the ww1 ek2 and were in ww2 service?

    - Was it against regulations to wear a medal without "proper" ribbon?



    HIS AGE
    - This portrait was taken in 1943. Even if he was 18 yrs old and served at the end of ww1 (1918), he would be 43 yrs old in the photo! He looks to be at the VERY oldest, 30 yrs old to me. What do you guys think?

    Either way, I'm interested to hear comments about the ribbon/medal combo and if anyone has seen this before........or if anyone can share another photo of this combination
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2

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    Given he wear his other medal back to front it does not inspire much confidence.

    My guess is he when to a dodgy military outfiteres!

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  4. #3

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    Not only is he wearing the one piece backwards, as Ade said, but they are purposely crooked applied to hang evenly for the portrait. Personally, I can't think of a single reason of why or how he would be wearing medals that he obviously could not have been issued. Maybe he is wearing a recently deceased good friend or relative's pieces to honor him??
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  5. #4

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    Perhaps a postwar photo by a couple that had lost their original wartime wedding-photo. The peculiar awards are a way of avoiding "Swastika Issues"...
    cheers, Glenn

  6. #5

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    The quality of the print would dicsount any foul play I think?

    I agree his age would seem to rule him out for a 1914 EKII. Yet there you have it, a 1914 EKKII but from a 1939 ribbon.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  7. #6

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    Maybe his Dads cross?

  8. #7
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    Thanks for the responses guys.
    I had no clue that the ek2 was a ww1 until I got the photo in hand. The sellers photos were poor. Was quite surprised when I saw it.
    It's a good theory Glenn, but Ade is correct, it is proper period paper, standard Voigtlander studio postcard paper .....no glow/proper wear/high detail/correct cut/etc), so no worries there. It is also dated 1943, which seems okay as well to me.

    Just an odd set of circumstances that I had never seen before.

    Here is a shot of the whole front and reverse just for reference... (I over-adjusted the contrast/saturation on both so you can see the details/wear better)
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #8

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    Interesting photo Bill!
    He is not a newbie either.
    Maybe he simply has not actually been awarded his at the time of the photo and other ones were used.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  10. #9
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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Not only is he wearing the one piece backwards, as Ade said, but they are purposely crooked applied to hang evenly for the portrait. Personally, I can't think of a single reason of why or how he would be wearing medals that he obviously could not have been issued. Maybe he is wearing a recently deceased good friend or relative's pieces to honor him??
    I know, it just doesn't make sense. He could be wearing someone else's medals, but on his wedding day too, makes it even more strange. I even thought of maybe the studio had the medals, and he put them on....but that doesn't make ANY bit of sense either. Guess we may never know. William is right tho, he definitely has them on crooked to match the angle of the portrait.

    Glenn, I thought a bit more about avoiding the swastika issue like you said, but the LGAB and DRL (as well as tunic) have Swas on them as well....so I dunno?


    Ralph----Excellent theory!! That may be the only plausible explanation, But still pretty odd.

  11. #10

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    Not just somewhat, but highly interesting!

    Needless to say, we will never know the definitive answer for this oddity.

    However, if somebody forced me at gunpoint to come up with any theory for the reason, mine would be this:

    I think that this not the actual medal bar of the soldier in this photograph and that it was "improvised". Just to make it clear: I'm not saying that he wasn't actually awarded the EK2 and the Sudetenland medal, just that this isn't the bar he had worn prior to or after his wedding.

    Note that the medals are mounted in the traditional trapezoidal Prussian style (often worn by WWI veterans), not in the then-current, regulation style for the Wehrmacht that I would expect to see on the uniform of a young Third Reich-era active-duty soldier.
    Also, as has been pointed out above, the bar is pinned on slanting to the wearer's left to appear vertical in this photograph; certainly not an acceptable method of wear for any other occasion and not the way one would sew on the thread loops for attaching a medal bar to the tunic.

    So my guess is that he was awarded the medals but did not bother to have them court-mounted into a medal bar. Not as surprising as it seems for a wartime serviceman, as the ribbon bar was to replace the medal bar for all occasions and with all orders of dress for the duration of the war. (Of course, many soldiers still had themselves medal bars mounted during the war years, but this was not obligatory.) Another possibility is that the EK2 was such a recent award that he only had the Sudetenland medal mounted into a bar while he did not yet have the opportunity to have it "updated" with the EK2.

    So, come his wedding day with the wish to appear as smart as possible, he had to improvise. Given that it is wholly possible that this was during a short leave from the front, it may well have been on rather short notice. Maybe the next available military outfitter only had the trapezoidal mounting bars and 1914 EK2s in store at the time? Maybe the bar was borrowed from one source and the medals from another one? (Notice that it's the kind of bar where the medals are non-permanently attached to the rear by hooks or clips.)

    (Like I said, all just speculation...)

    By the way, he's a Flak NCO; that would make his rank designation Wachtmeister.

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