Stahlhelm photos, SA, and others - would like opinions

[Bill T]

HPL, how did you know that the Shield was a Landesverband insignia for Gau Unterweser? I cannot find an example for the life of me. haha Does it have anything to do with the Rotenburg unit do you know?

Im sure you remember this one......you helped me with this Shield ID too a while back. WESTMARK : brocks

[HPL2008]

HPL, how did you know that the Shield was a Landesverband insignia for Gau Unterweser? I cannot find an example for the life of me. haha Does it have anything to do with the Rotenburg unit do you know?

Phew; this takes a bit of explaining. Alright, then, bear with me:

For making the ID, I used this period reference work which includes illustrations of the Stahlhelmbund's various Landesverband sleeve shields:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Booker1...nUndAbzeichen#

As you can see, the LV shields all have quite distinctive different designs and - while the details of the sleeve shield in question were not super-clear in the group photograph, they were visible well enough to tell that they could only match the Gau Unterweser sleeve shield.

I actually tried to find a photograph of an Unterweser sleeve shield on the usual militaria dealer websites and various forums but no joy; I guess this is a rather rare item. I did, however find that the shield with the wording "Gau Bremen" (see for example https://www.weitze.net/detail/94/Sta...n__146794.html ) had the exact same heraldry and design.

I am afraid that I know far too little about the Stahlhelmbund's organizational structures and their development, but apparentely at some point Gau Bremen was re-named Gau Unterweser or vice versa. Anyway, the text on the shield in the photograph is not quite legible, but it is clear that the second line is far too long to be "Bremen".

A little geographical background: Unterweser is the "lower" part of the river Weser (see Weser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) i.e. the part near its mouth.
The bottom part of this sleeve shield shows, from left to right, the coats-of-arms for Hamburg, Bremen and Westphalia. The Weser runs both through the region of Westphalia and the city of Bremen. There is another Rotenburg in Hesse, but the Rotenburg in question here has to be the one located in Lower Saxony. (See Rotenburg an der Wümme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
It is situated between the rivers Elbe and Weser and at about the same latitude as Hamburg and Bremen, matching the Unterweser/Bremen region perfectly.

[Eric Zentner]

Andreas I know this had to take you some time to reply but we all thank you very much. You are the man

ERIC

[HPL2008]

I think I will start to research the Stahlhelmbund more. It seems like there is alot to learn about them.

Indeed, and it is rather frustrating that there is only very little reference material on this particular subject compared to, say, the amount of stuff available on the SS or Wehrmacht!

All the data I have on the Stahlhelmbund's uniforms and insignia are bits and pieces scattered through a number of standard references, all of which cover only certain aspects of the matter and then only as a partial subject dealt with together with other organizations.

(For example, some information can be found in Brian L. Davis' books "Badges and Insignia of the Third Reich 1933-1945" and "German Uniforms of the Third Reich Period 1933-1945" or Vol. 2 of "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" by Wilhelm P.B.R. Saris & Jill Halcomb Smith.)

So, if someone, somewhere is currently writing something like "The Complete Guide to the Uniforms, Badges and Insignia of the Stahlhelmbund (fully illustrated)", let me know; I'd like to order a copy!

Also, I see some members of Stahlhelm wear the "Der Stahlhelm" membership badge on there caps......was this not done by everyone?

From the aforementioned Saris/Smith work it becomes clear that the Stahlhelmbund's headgear and the associated cap badges were never fully standardized due to regional differences, changes in regulations etc.
(By the way: The wearing of the Stahlhelm/"Steel Helmet" badge between the two cockades is listed as introduced in 1929; in 1933 the badge was replaced by the early-pattern national eagle insigne.)

[Bill T]

HPL (Andreas), That was amazing. Now the Rotenburg part plays in perfectly with the whole ID. The reference that you have included is outstanding and will help me personally in the future as well, I'm sure. I agree that the Gau Bremen shield is VERY close, but luckily you have been thourough in your ID and were able to pinpoint the correct/specific shield. I dont think alot of others could have done that to be honest! VERY interesting that the sheild displays the coat of arms to these key places. I now understand why the river Weser/Unterweser represents this unit and shield. THANK you very very much for your awesome research skills. You have a way of explaining things so that they are very understandable and informative to willing learners.
And please dont think I was questioning your information with my previous question.....I was just really interested in learning more if possible. And I most definitely DID! It makes these photos alot more interesting when you are able to learn something in depth about them. Which is ultimately the reason for collecting them. As always, your valued time is much appreciated.

[Bill T]

[QUOTE=HPL2008;256721]So, if someone, somewhere is currently writing something like "The Complete Guide to the Uniforms, Badges and Insignia of the Stahlhelmbund (fully illustrated)", let me know; I'd like to order a copy!QUOTE]


Same Here! funny you mentioned that, because I have been searching online this morning for something similar, but to no avail. Just from what I have researched since last night, it suprises me that more people are not interested in the StahlhelmBund! It is just as interesting as the SA to me personally.

Good to know that the regulations were not so strictly enforced. I like the looks of the badge between the cockades!

[HPL2008]

And please dont think I was questioning your information with my previous question.....I was just really interested in learning more if possible.

Don't worry, I didn't think that at all; it was a perfectly fair and legitimate question. (Apart from that, it goes without saying that I am certainly not above being questioned.) Anyway, thanks for your kind words!

[Bill T]

.
(By the way: The wearing of the Stahlhelm/"Steel Helmet" badge between the two cockades is listed as introduced in 1929; in 1933 the badge was replaced by the early-pattern national eagle insigne.)

Ahhhh! this makes sense now. Because the last photo I have included (the large man) is sporting the National Eagle. So that picture is obviously dated later than the others

[HPL2008]

Ahhhh! this makes sense now. Because the last photo I have included (the large man) is sporting the National Eagle. So that picture is obviously dated later than the others

Yes, that's right. Also notice his Swastika brassard, introduced for the Stahlhelmbund in 1933 as well.

[Bill T]

Just as an Overveiw of what has been discussed here.

First is the "Der Stahlhelm" membership badge worn on caps starting in 1929 (MARKED IN RED) - NOTE- some are not wearing the badge on caps

Yellow: Wehrsport collar insignia

Blue: Jungstahlhelm sword insignia

Purple: Landesverband (sheild) for Gau Unterweser

Brown: The Stahlhelm (helmet) buckle