Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16

Unusual Visor & Uniform-NSFK??

Article about: Here's one I've never seen before...I assume NSFK, is that correct? cheers, Glenn

  1. #11

    Default

    I tried to explain the meaning already once before. Apparently it is not that easy, but there is a difference between Deutsche Luftfahrt and Deutscher Luftsport-Verband.
    The photo from post 1 is the uniform for the Deutsche Luftfahrt, its members being a member from the DLV. In fact he is classified as Motorflieger; the four wings upon the collar-patch means 2. Flugzeugführer (he also could be a 2. Bordfunker-Wart). The uniform was granted. See coming explanation, which I explained before at the WRF:

    March 25, 1933 the Deutscher Luftsport-Verband (DLV) was officially a fact and was raised from many of the existing air-organizations, like the Deutsche Luftfahrt-Verband (DLV). Others agreed to disband. In the course of September 1933 the SA and SS pilots-units ceased to exist. Its men were incorporated within the DLV, which was a nazi- (sub-) organization.

    November 4, 1933 the uniform(s) for the Deutsche Luftfahrt, officially titled: Bestimmungen über die Bekleidung der Deutschen Luftfahrt were sanctioned and issued by Hermann Göring, as the Reichsminister der Luftfahrt und Ehrenpräsidednt des DLV. The regulation was divided into: A) Motorflieger (motor-pilots. This section included persons from for example the Lufthansa, Reichsamt für Flugsicherung and DVS – Deutsche Verkehrsfliegerschule) and B) Segelflieger (gliding-pilots). The uniform for these last was introduced six days later on November 10, 1933. One should not that “all of these persons had to be member from the Deutscher Luftsport-Verband (literally: Die Bekleidung der Deutschen Luftfahrt wird nur an Einzelpersonen, die Mitglied des DLV sein müssen, verliehen. Die Mitgliedschaft beim DLV allein gibt kein Recht der DL-Bekleidung). And so it is obvious that not just anybody could wear the uniform. It’s wearing, with a related rank, was granted and stated individually with an order, known as Verleihungsverfügung, along with a permit (Ausweis), which stated the wearing. The new uniforms were also announced in numerous other periodicals as “Flugsport”, nr.25 from 1933 (page 537) and nr. 5 from 1934 (page 104). In some ways the confusion started with these articles while the uniforms were treated all alike!

    The uniforms for motor- and gliding pilots were protected by law (Reichsgesetzblatt March 21, 1933), as were also the SA, SS and Stahlhelm uniforms. It might be confusing, but another RZM announcement states the RZM had nothing to do with the DLV. It was literally said with a March 2, 1935 announcement: bei der RZM gehen noch immer Bestellungen auf Abzeichen und Bekleidungsstücke für Verbände ein , für welche die RZM nicht zuständig ist (Mitteilungsblatt der Reichszeugmeisterei, nr. 2 from March 2, 1935). Page 73 mentions here for example: Flieger, Deutscher Luftsportverband. The use of the uniforms has to do with the fact the uniforms were protected by law and not while the RZM was involved in other ways.

    Various characteristics were valid for the uniforms. The most important characteristics for the Deutsche Lufttfahrt motor-pilots from the November 4, 1933 regulation: a) with the visored cap the early pattern NSDAP eagle had to be worn, along with aluminum or golden cords and upon the band the national cockade within the oak-leaf wreath, flanked on both sides by four segmented wings (Fliegerschwingen); b) upon the left arm the eagle pattern was worn; c) the collar patches had a color according the earlier mention branch (most often blue) upon which a small metal wing (Doppelschwinge) for the lowest rank (Flieger) was positioned. The higher the rank the more small wings were worn, eventually along with a small braid or wreath-forms. For other branches the collar-patch colors were: white (Reichsminister and Staatssekretär), black (Reichsluftfahrtministerium) and yellow (Deutsche Verkehrsfliegerschule). The lighter-blue was used by members from the Lufthansa and Reichsamt für Flugsicherung, being DLV-members, as well as those from the DLV, allowed to wear the uniform). The colors bright red and light-brown were introduced in the course of April and May 1934; one shoulder-strap was worn upon left.

    Motor-pilots and related:

    Name:  DL-1 img639 (1).jpg
Views: 271
Size:  37.3 KB Name:  DLVWreath1_zps1a93c760 (1).jpg
Views: 264
Size:  29.5 KB

    Name:  DL-2 img639 (1).jpg
Views: 261
Size:  38.1 KB Name:  DL-4 img641 (1).jpg
Views: 312
Size:  47.9 KB


    Most important characteristics for the Deutsche Luftfahrt glider-pilots, November 10, 1933: a) with the visored cap the early pattern NSDAP eagle had to be worn (the eagle was added in 1934), along with a black chin strap or aluminum cords and upon the band the DLV-symbol, consisting f a red round circle with vertical propeller and black swastika, flanked on both sides by three segmented wings; b) upon the left arm the eagle pattern was worn; c) the collar patches were blue upon which a large styled “S” (a curve) was positioned, interrupted by one, two or three bars (according to function). The bars from the “S” were referred as Wolke (cloud); d) no shoulder-strap was worn. In 1935 one was worn upon left.

    Gliding-pilots:

    Name:  DL-3 img640.jpg
Views: 267
Size:  35.7 KB Name:  dlv.png
Views: 243
Size:  33.7 KB

    October 4, 1935 the regulation for motor-pilots was abolished (unter Aufhebung des Abschnitts A (Motorflieger) der Bestimmungen über die Bekleidung der Deutschen Luftfahrt from November 1933) and a new, official, regulation for members from the Deutscher Luftsport-Verband (Bestimmungen des Deutschen Luftsport-Verbandes: DLV-Sturm-Bekleidung) was announced by Hermann Göring as the Reichsminister der Luftfahrt und Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe. Section A for motor-pilots from the 1933 regulation was abolished. The uniform (the insignia and ranking system largely were the same as the one from 1933) no longer was granted, but worn by all registered members. The 1933 cap insignia for gliding pilots remained and was the official DLV headgear-symbol. A permit stated the wearing. Also this uniform was protected by law as were the uniforms for the SA, SS or the other political organizations from the NSDAP.

    SO.... the badge with the red ring from post 5 is DLV; the photo is NSFK. This NSFK-organization proceeded from the DLV and for a transitional period the badge was worn. This (Deutsche Luftfahrt and DLV) I already did explain in volume 2 from "Headgear of Hitler's Germany", which was published in 1992. This is now over twenty years ago!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default

    Thanks, as always, for the in-depth explanation, Wim.

    I don't want to try your patience, but there is one more thing I have been wondering about for some time:

    Photographs apparently taken during the late and final period of the DLV (after the Luftwaffe had come out of hiding and prior to the creation of the NSKK) show personnel wearing collar patches with winged propellers.

    Rank was apparently indicated by a system of lace bars and pips. So far, I have seen no bars/pips, 1 pip, 1 bar and 1 bar + 1 pip:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DLV spät.JPG 
Views:	200 
Size:	40.2 KB 
ID:	856074

    Would you happen to have any data on the rank insignia system or these patches in general?

    Did they replace both the "wings" and the "S/clouds" patches?

  4. #13

    Default

    You mean about this photo?

    Name:  DLV%252520Men%252520-%252520Small.jpg
Views: 459
Size:  26.2 KB

    These persons did not go into the Luftwaffe, but into the NSFK.
    Practically always the men, wearing the uniform for the Deutsche Luftfahrt, were the men in the earliest stage for the Luftwaffe.

    I have no information about this system, in spite of extensive research in the 1980's and 1990's.
    Maybe it was only worn for a very short period of time, being a combination ranking-system, combined with the winged propellor
    and worn in the period of late spring until late Augustus 1937 (this is just a guess, for the explained reason coming):

    April 17, 1937 the NSFK proceeded from the DLV and September 3, 1937 the uniform-regulation for the NSFK was published.
    In the start of the regulation it was said:
    with an order from June 18, 1937 (order VI F. Nr. 13526/37) and the order from August 24, 1937 (nr. 15151/37 V.A.7)
    (apparently) a NSFK-uniform was described, but with the appearance of the September regulation the system was abolished and put aside.

    This could have been in this stage a transitional period combination. The patch with only the propellor could be a DLV/NSFK-Mann;
    a patch with a Litze could be DLV/NSFK-Sturmmann;
    two Litze a DLV/NSFK-Rottenführer;
    one pip (star) a DLV/NSFK-Scharführer;
    one pip and one Litze a DLV/NSFK-Oberscharführer, etc.etc..
    As the NSFK was an NS-organization, they adapted parts of the political system (brown-shirt etc.) and changed the DLV-uniform into the
    NSFK-uniform (tunic, kepi, etc.).
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  5. #14

    Default

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    You mean about this photo?
    That's one from which I "quoted", yes. I had composited excerpts from three images to show to the different rank insignia. I've a seen a number of other pictures with those patches in wear, but most of those have just the propeller without additional pips and stripes.


    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    I have no information about this system, in spite of extensive research
    in the 1980's and 1990's.
    Too bad, but I guess if you have no period documentation on the subject, nobody does.

    However, your theory about the rank system in the last paragraph sure sounds plausible. Thanks again!

  6. #15

    Default

    see my explanation in post 13.
    I think we only can find the exact information in the two orders described,
    which much be letters from the NSFK-Korpsführung (Christiansen).
    Maybe one can find them in a German archive, but since a few years I have
    decided not to do research anymore, or buy me lots of material.
    Maybe the two orders give a definitive solution......
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  7. #16
    ?

    Default

    Thank you for all these informations.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Unusual Uniform Modifications

    In German photographs & Postcards
    07-24-2014, 11:42 PM
  2. Nsfk

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    10-23-2011, 04:44 PM
  3. NSFK uniform

    In Heer, Luftwaffe, & Kriegsmarine Uniforms of the Third Reich
    03-06-2011, 06:28 PM
  4. NSFK armband

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    01-27-2011, 03:28 AM
  5. DLV or NSFK

    In Luftwaffe
    11-04-2010, 05:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •