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to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

Article about: Dear fellow members, I have a German canteen cup (1940) in my possession with certain engravings (see photo's). But I can't figure them out... So far I discovered that the number "23419

  1. #1

    Default to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

    Dear fellow members,

    I have a German canteen cup (1940) in my possession with certain engravings (see photo's). But I can't figure them out...

    So far I discovered that the number "23419 A" corresponds to the feldpostnummer of the 5th Artillery Regiment, Stab III Abteilung. Artillerie-Regiment 5 - Lexikon der Wehrmacht

    Was it common among German soldiers to use a feldpost number to mark their possessions? Or could their be some other reason to use a feldpost number on a canteen?

    Hower, the rest of the engravings are still a mystery to me; it appears to be something like: "Dr. Grutte IV R" or "Di Grutte IV B". Unfortunately I have a poor knowledge on German units / personal names.

    So I was wondering if some of you could help me out? I'm very curious!

    Bryan

    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

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  3. #2

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    Meanwhile I did some more research and found some interesting data about this Grütte.

    A guy told me that Grütte is a rare surname in Germany, only less than a 100 people bear this name nowadays. I looked it up to be sure and I have to agree with him.

    This and the following information led to an interesting theory......I would like to hear your opinion about it.

    First, the cup contains:
    1. a name: Grütte
    2. some sort of number: IV-B (roman 4 and a B)
    3. a feldpost number: 23419 A



    1. Grütte is a rare German surname.

    2. If I Google IV-B, the POW camp Stalag IV-B keeps poppin up, nothing else. IV-B (Muhlberg) was one of the biggest POW camps of the German during ww2. Interesting is that after the war it's used by the Russians to incarcerate about 20.000 German soldiers. The engraving IV-B could make sense if this German soldier surrenderd to the Red Army, then got incarcerated by the Russians in Stalag IV-B.

    Now it's gets interesting! I found a memorial wall near to IV-B remembering to German soldiers how died in the camp under Russian supervision. Between hundreds of names, there is one Grütte. Willi Grütte, 1913-1947. See picture.
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

    3. The feldpost number on the cup reads 23419 A, this matches with the number of the Stab III. abteilung of the 5th Artillerie-Regiment. This regiment was since 1943 part of the 5th Jäger Division and fouth fiercely in Russia, Ukraine, Poland end Germany. The surrenderd in Germany with the Americans in their back to the Red Army in 1945.

    The last piece I found is a list of German casualties in a church book. Their again appears a Willi Grütte, born in 1913, died in 1947 in Muhlberg in an Gefangenenlager (Stalag IV-B was in Muhlberg). Also it mentions that he was a Flaksoldat, anti-aircraft. This function matches with the fieldpost number belonging to an artillerie regiment.
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?
    Kremmen (2. Weltkrieg), Landkreis Oberhavel, Brandenburg

    The only thing that does not match is the date of death....probably gone wrong in a Russian POW camp? Perhaps a different date was retrieved from eyewitnesses?

    However ,I think it's to much of a coincidence for such a rare name...

    I would like to hear your opinion about it!

    Bryan
    Last edited by Bundeswehr; 01-17-2017 at 10:59 AM.

  4. #3

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    Very interesting and You have done a lot of work. From where did You got that item? It does not seem a dug out item to me.

  5. #4

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    I got it from a collector, who was downsizing his collection. Unfortunately he couldn't tell me anything about the canteen. It's just passed on through time.
    The cup is part of a canteen set.
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

    I even asked for information at the WASt (Deutsche Dienststelle). Their reply letter contained no useful information.
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

    Nowadays I primarily collect marked canteens. It's kind of a challenge to trace the real owner and his story. Sometimes I succed after a lot of research. If not they become a silent witness of a forgotten man, a shadow of history.
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

  6. #5

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    You have a very interesting hobby. I collect trench art and there are also sometimes engravings with the owners name, it will be great to find out who was the owner.

  7. #6
    ?

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    Very impressive research - thank you.

    Philip

  8. #7

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    Well done, that's a very interesting piece of research. It certainly brings an artifact to life when you can link it to a man. Being a rare name, you may be on the right trail.

  9. #8

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    It still concerns me that the name is preceded by "Dr.", which suggests a medical function of some sort. So I did some extra research. I discovered very interesting information which undermines my previous theory!

    1. I discovered that IVb is a german army coding for "Arzt" (doctor/medical officer) in de Wehrmacht. So this corresponds with the prefix "Dr.".
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?
    Verwundetenversorgung in der Wehrmacht
    Sanitätswesen

    2. On the following site a Dr. Grütte appears on the list. Dr. Erich Grütte SS Hauptsturmführer. SS-nr.: 219444. Would the Wehrmacht note "Dr." in its documents only in case of a medical officer?
    to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?
    Numery cz

    3. In his biography Herbert Brunnegger mentions he was the driver of a Dr. Grütte for a while (Grütte appears over 20 times in his book). Herbert served with the 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf". However Herbert tells that Dr. Grütte is a botanic professor and doesn't mention anything about a medical assignment (but the book only partly available online).to which unit/whom might these engravings refer to?

    https://books.google.nl/books?id=AxX...%BCtte&f=false

    Considering that the surname Grütte is uncommon in Germany and its accompanied with the prefix "Dr." in all cases makes it quite rare.
    What still keeps a secret is the number on the cup, 23419 A. Could that be some sort of erkennungsmarke?

    Anyone an idea?

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