Budenovka - fake or original?

robsfl · 04-04-2009, 09:12 PM

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and am trying to find out more about a civil war era Budenovka. It bears the hammer & plough that was used between 1918 and 1922. The size is small (about 54) and it shows some wear to exposed parts which is difficult to cover in pictures. Nevertheless I know there are a lot of fakes, some of them quite high quality and difficult to tell. At least this piece has a correcty sewn liner (contrary to the repros I saw from inside). The base metal of the star is copper or something similar, it has darkened but my flash messes up the pictures a bit.

It is hard to find information about the early headgear of the red army, all pictures I found showed the later styles used well after 1922. Any comments would be helpful, maybe somebody even knows an original pre-1922 reference piece? One forum member had the information that a producer from Poland sells reproduced pieces made from old overcoats - it would be a great help to know how to tell such repros by details that allow identification.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 04-04-2009 09:12 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Dimas** · 04-04-2009, 09:20 PM

Please needs more detailed pictures, also the back part of the star

robsfl · 04-04-2009, 09:51 PM

Dimas,

it is difficult to get any larger pictures of the star. It is fastened with prongs that would need to be bent in order to remove it, but I can see a bit behind from the side.

**Dimas** · 04-04-2009, 10:29 PM

I'am affraid we need a full back part of the star, most probably that is a copy or 1967 year issue, from the first pictures of the hat I can't say nothing, needs more detailed pictures

**RichieC** · 04-04-2009, 11:03 PM

These are heavily faked... As a matter of fact, I have never seen an authentic example. Of course that does not mean that they do not exist... They are THAT rare. I would think that an original specimen would command a $2000.00 (USD) PLUS price tag in the Moscow or St Pete collector's circles. Nevermind the remote chance that one would be found for sale in the US or Western Europe - except on eBay, or from some unscrupulous/"ignorant" seller at a US or European militaria show/fair of course...

In any case, I have doubts instantly due to the cut and new looking appearance of the leather straps and the "puffyness" of the lining.

Also, I am assuming that the cloth covered buttons are made of plastic. You may want to verify that. I lean towards the chance that they are indeed such...

It is 100% true that "tourist souvenirs" are made from rough (very) postwar shinel coat material and are visible as such from ten kilometers away.

This one was made with the intention to deceive...

The star is a copy IMO:

1- Most originals were not enamel coated - and the ones that were are unlike the one shown.

2- This one seems to be intentionally chipped and "patina-ed" to imitate age. It is a common attribute of the above.

3- From what I have read in reference, these early (1919r pattern) Budionovka did not (or were not supposed to) have a metal star adorned on the cloth star anyhow.

Of course, all comments from me are simply: IMO

**Wesley's Dad** · 04-05-2009, 01:30 AM

I agree with the comments of the other members. While I cannot offer any more techincal information I can say this... Collecting material from the Civil War era and just after is a very dangerous road. From what I have seen, the material available on the open market (particularly in the West) is heavliy skewed towards a high percentage of fakes & reproductions versus original. When I say heavily, I mean like 90/10 or worse. When I was involved in the dealer side of this hobby for a while, we chose to simply not touch it. If one must... the safest things of this era are items of field gear. Uniforms and Headgear are really stacked against the perspective collector. A sea of bad material ranging from outright forgeries, 60 year old theater costumes that look old enough, and old nostalgic celebration reproductions now passed off as original.

robsfl · 04-05-2009, 10:16 AM

Thank you for the very helpful comments and background info! I did not know this was such a dangerous area, the original budenovkas I saw so far where later styles and rather cheap. I got mine for a bargain price so it does not ruin me.

Just for the heck I did check the buttons. There is no plastic beneath, I can run needles through them. They are made of sort of a knurled knot unter the felt.

I also made a picture of the back side of the star.

RichieC is right about the leather straps. All other pictures show these straps to be made of cloth. I was hoping to find a killer detail such as a wrong material somewhere to be shure (its a fake because of...). They are quite brittle too so I won´t close the buttons any more, no need to break the part - it is still a nice shelf item.