Article about: That kind of headgear was issued until the end of 1940 year. I will show two early helmets in different sizes, one is a early production, circa 34-36 year, due of plastic "Parisian"
Perhaps you meant M 38 helmet, leather variation of which in 1945 was obsolete?
Nice photos...
There is a version manufactured new in 1945 and examples exist dated as such. They are not reused prewar helmets, at least not all of them. Basically they remade what you are calling the M38.
M38 and M40, if this nomenclature is actually correct, are essentially the same, only one leather the other cloth. Were there really any cloth helmets before June 1941? I've always been curious about that.
My point to Dimas was that the helmet type he shows was not the last prewar leather type. Actually it is not even the most common prewar leather helmet. What you are calling M38 is.
Really I didn't heard about the M38 if they exists. But I have seen similar to my examples dated 1939 year.
All the available M 40 ( as mentioned M 38) leather helmets, which was picked up in Bulgarian filmstudio about 10 years ago, was dated 1945 year. And most part of them has a fake reinforcement fillings, some has newspaper inside, some of them just a piece of material. Not as must be with a fat layer of felt.
I've show somewhere in the forum that kind of helmet, and I would prefer to say the M45 or Parade of Victory model helmet.
To Vadim:
Насколько я понимаю у Вас имеется более полная информация по приказам?
In 1938 new technical conditions were adapted for modified 1934 model. It was manufactured with dark blue lining and with cover either from leather or dual layer canvas (двухслойная кирза), winter version was also introduced with white sheep lining and dual layer canvas. In 1940 with introduction of new radio equipment some m38 tanks’ and air force helmets start being equipped with headphones and laringophones.
I think before 1944 the radio equipment was most often if not always seperate hardware worn in the helmet via the provisions provided. That style of helmet does not really start showing up in wartime photos until pretty late.
The tankist on the left in your photo wears M41 regulation tabs on his great coat, but the photo is much later, probably 1944. I say that because that is an SU76M in the background. Not uncommon to have a greatcoat lacking the 1943 insignia update.
The style of helmet they wear must have seen much postwar use as they seem incredibly rare. I have an incomplete example, but have not had a single chance to upgrade it
I think before 1944 the radio equipment was most often if not always seperate hardware worn in the helmet via the provisions provided. That style of helmet does not really start showing up in wartime photos until pretty late.
Are you going to support any of you statements or all the pleasure should be mine?
By the way that photo above was taken in February 1943 and it's SU-76M.
Why the indignant comment? I have made no claim here to be expert or the final authority on anything. Maybe you missed the "I think" part in my previous post.
Personally, I enjoy learning new information. Your latest photos are most insightful from my perspective. I have never seen a photo of a KV crew wearing this type of helmet. So for that I thank you.
As for backing up my statements. My statements are from my own collector and researching observation. Being halfway around the world I do not have the wealth of resources you have on hand in your homeland. Many photos such as the ones you so graciously show us today are unknown in western circles.
So I really hope for your sake that you do not truely take pleasure in proving someone wrong. Hell.. at least I got the vehicle correct.
Being halfway around the world I do not have the wealth of resources you have on hand in your homeland. Many photos such as the ones you so graciously show us today are unknown in western circles.
I'm living in USA too and why my wealth of resources should be any different than yours?
I'm living in USA too and why my wealth of resources should be any different than yours? May be I'm belonging to different western circles?
In the US... I had assumed otherwise or maybe I have confused you another user. My point was that there is wealth of Soviet archive information that is still slow to become well known in the west. How about sharing with us where these photos may be found? I have had a keen intetest in Soviet AFV and tank uniforms for many years and I have not seen the photos that you have just shared. Military Chronicles? Frontline Illustration? And the tech manual illustrations? I'd love to get these too.
If I have rubbed you the wrong way, then there has been a misunderstanding. I did not enter the discussion looking for an argument. I simply added my perspective based on the best information I happen to have. Is that not the spirit of this forum?
Ok... Hopefully we can keep this constructive. Attached are photos of my incomplete tanker helmet that at one time was one of the factory equipped radio equipment types. Missing are the plug leads and the throat microphones I believe. Still, it is the only example I have managed to locate.
As Vvadim has pointed out my earlier assumption about these being 1944 and later was incorrect. As I did not support my statement at the time I will explain why I was of that opinion before my enlightenment. Every photograph I have ever seen showing this type helmet, all showed crews to SU76M, T34-85, IS series tanks and assault guns. Naturally, I have not seen EVERY photograph ever taken of this style helmet, but all I had seen were 1944 or later.
Vvadim's SU76M crew photo was dated 1943, but that was not reveiled until I had made opinion. Being that it was an SU76M, I assumed that the photo was probably 44 or later based on the production volumes know for that vehicle. There were about 2000 of these vehicles built in 1943. In 1944 there were appoximatly 7200 vehicles built. In the first 6 months of 1945 there was another 3500 or so completed. (Based on one of Zaloga's Soviet tank tabulations, possibly better data exist now)
Being an engineer by vocation, I do have a tendancey to make the best guess I can based on the data at hand. So not knowing the photo's exact date, it would be reasonable to assume that the photo was post 1943 since less than 16% of the wartime production was made in 1943. Alas, in this case logic failed.
Regardless, this is an interesting thread and I would love to see any other information or examples of the leather helmet that started this thread and the radio types. I would love to see photos of the earlier, seperate radio equipment as well.
Re: Pre war leather tankist protective helmet
by vvadim
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