HEER buckle & tab - help identify maker

[josephc]

I recently purchased this buckle at an antique shop and am having some trouble making out the marking. The tab is 1938 and I believe location is ludensheid. The mark looks like a double strike or two circles overlapping; I cleaned some of the paint away to get a better look. I will try to get a better pic if this is not enough.

thanks for any info,
Joe

Also - there was a small brass buckle for sale that the owner was calling an SA buckle. It was dimensionally maybe a third of a standard size buckle- I have not seen one like this before and was hesitant to purchase. What was it?

[josephc]

two additional with flash

[Ben Evans]

Joe, the maker is more than likely Friedrich Turch Ludenscheid, have a look in the Non M4 makers list you will see an example in there, I will post on this thread when I get home, very hard to tell from the pics though

[wood]

Whats it say on the leather tab, could be the same maker. Naughty boy scratching original paint.
There is a small size SA buckle. What for, I don't remember.
Pete
Edit, I just noticed that the tab is illegible!

[Ben Evans]

Here is a Friedrich Turch maker marked buckle for examples

[wood]

I don't know Ben, it looks (on the tab) to end with a "........ck" Perhaps Joe can fill in any letters he can see.
Pete