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Weekend Find

Article about: I spent this past weekend helping my Brother-In-Law painting my In-Laws lake house. My Father-In-Law, a WW II vet, passed away last April. He and I used to spend hours at a time discussing h

  1. #1
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    Default Weekend Find

    I spent this past weekend helping my Brother-In-Law painting my In-Laws lake house. My Father-In-Law, a WW II vet, passed away last April. He and I used to spend hours at a time discussing his combat expierences as well as my interest in collecting WWII uniforms, equipment and insignia.

    During the last years of his time with us, I was firtiunate to receive from him a 1939 dated Fliegerblouse he picked up in France, a HJ dager, an arm band with Swatzika, a cuff title and several other small pieces of German militaria. One piece he showed to me with the promise it would be part ofy collection one day was a small hand gun (PPK?) and brown leather holster; pretty sure it was Luftwaffe issue.

    I had hoped to take possession of that pistol this weekend, but it was not to be found. B-I-L claims it wasn't found and after searching myself, I gave up. What I did find, however, was an enlisted man's belt and three buckles, one of which is a nickle plated (?) HJ buckle. I have posted pictures of my newest additions to my collection. I would like your opinions and comments on these buckles and the belt, German items are not my strong suit.

    The belt with one buckle attached:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Belt and Buckle.JPG 
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ID:	371893Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Belt Date Stamp.JPG 
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Size:	142.5 KB 
ID:	371894Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Belt Named.JPG 
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ID:	371895Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Belt Size.JPG 
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ID:	371896

    The HJ buckle:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HJ Buckle Face.JPG 
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ID:	371898Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HJ Buckle Rear.JPG 
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ID:	371900Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HJ Buckle RZM.JPG 
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ID:	371901

    The gold colored aluminum buckle:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gold Buckle Face.JPG 
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ID:	371904Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gold Buckle Rear.JPG 
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ID:	371905

    Last but not least, the silver colored aluminum buckle:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Silver Buckle Face.JPG 
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ID:	371907Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Silver Buckle Rear.JPG 
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Size:	149.8 KB 
ID:	371908

    Gary

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Weekend Find

    It's amazing how historical guns always go "missing" from estates. They tend to be a major source of contention amongst relatives. No one ever wants the China set or old bedroom set, but the guns disappear faster than a pizza at a weight watchers convention. Depending on how long ago you think it went missing, I'd start checking pawn shops, if you care that much about it.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Quote by helmetone View Post
    It's amazing how historical guns always go "missing" from estates. They tend to be a major source of contention amongst relatives. No one ever wants the China set or old bedroom set, but the guns disappear faster than a pizza at a weight watchers convention. Depending on how long ago you think it went missing, I'd start checking pawn shops, if you care that much about it.
    That might be a bit pointless. The promise was made at least 6 or 7 years ago and I have no idea where he kept it or when it was "relocated" or by whom. For all I know, my F-I-L might have sold it, given it to someone else or his wife may even have it. And she's not the type of person who would offer any information on it if she knew. Sad, but that's life.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Yep, I know how that goes. Some relatives are rather deceitful. They know guns mean easy cash. At least you got some nice items an a lot Of great memories. Those are worth more than any material good.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Hi Gary, three nice buckles and a belt there my friend, the Nickel HJ is M4/23 Dr Franke & Co Ludenscheid, the two piece aluminium Heer parade buckle is by Overhoff & Cie Ludenscheid and the Nickel Weimar is a nice variant buckle and I believe made by Assmann if the prongs are bent which i think I can just see
    Ben

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Quote by Ben Evans View Post
    Hi Gary, three nice buckles and a belt there my friend, the Nickel HJ is M4/23 Dr Franke & Co Ludenscheid, the two piece aluminium Heer parade buckle is by Overhoff & Cie Ludenscheid and the Nickel Weimar is a nice variant buckle and I believe made by Assmann if the prongs are bent which i think I can just see

    Thanks for the information Ben, I was hoping you would join in this thread.

    A quick question or two;

    Am I correct in assuming that the buckle you say is a parade buckle, was anodized or colored in some fashion and was originally the typical silver color?

    What distinguishing features of the two aluminum buckles tell you who made them? I don't have a clue.

    Lastly, can you give me some information of the Nickel Weimar buckle? Is there anything of importance to the buckle, aside from the lack of a Swatzika?

  8. #7

    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Quote by gbalke View Post
    Thanks for the information Ben, I was hoping you would join in this thread.

    A quick question or two;

    Am I correct in assuming that the buckle you say is a parade buckle, was anodized or colored in some fashion and was originally the typical silver color?

    What distinguishing features of the two aluminum buckles tell you who made them? I don't have a clue.

    Lastly, can you give me some information of the Nickel Weimar buckle? Is there anything of importance to the buckle, aside from the lack of a Swatzika?
    Gary, ref this:

    Am I correct in assuming that the buckle you say is a parade buckle, was anodized or colored in some fashion and was originally the typical silver color?

    Yes, these buckles were given a silver "wash", yours has just tarnished over the years and thats why it has that gold appearance, unless someone has actually sprayed it gold post war, hard to say from the pic. The makers mark for this is o the rear of the buckle, you will see a OLC in a triangle, again this stands for Overhoff & Cie, Ludensheid (OLC)

    The HJ buckle is marked M4/23 which is the M4 license number for Dr Franke & Co, have a look at the M4 makers list thread.

    The Weimar buckle or Reichsheer was the name given to the German 100, 000 men army after the 1st world war. This was pre Nazi so no swastikas were present on the buckles. I believe it is made by Assmann as they had a tendancy to bend the prongs on their buckles which I think yours has, I will will post you a thread vto look at which may be of some interest to you

    - - Updated - -

    This is a good thread to read to get the basics on buckles:

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/belt-buckles-3-reich/buckle-belt-characteristics-originals-fakes-5102/
    Ben

  9. #8

    Default Re: Weekend Find

    This thread will give you a ref to what we mean by "bent prongs" only the maker Assmann ever did this

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/belt-b...buckle-124582/

    - - Updated - -

    Another example of the Assmann bent prongs, please note also not all Assmann buckles had bent prongs

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/belt-buckles-3-reich/waterpolice-buckle-assmann-29801/
    Ben

  10. #9

    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Just found the one I was looking for, this is a nickel HJ, you can really see the prongs on this one:

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/belt-b...j-buckle-1149/
    Ben

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Weekend Find

    Thanks Ben, you certainly have a wealth of knowledge regarding these buckles. My "expertise" is more in the area of WW II Brit and Canadian uniforms and kit; focusing more on the RCAF. I also collect Enfields, so far four No. 4's, a Aussie made Lithgow No. 1, Mk III and soon to be a No. 5 "Jungle Carbine". Is it odd that a Yank collects British Commonwealth items?

    Gary

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