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Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

Article about: Hi folks, Some feedback please. I have been trying to create a comprehensive list of Heer Specialist patches. The sources I have checked all have some kind of problem - conflicting titles, m

  1. #11

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    Fred, I will be tapping you for information! I have checked 11 sources now for information on specialty patches and none of them have consistent labeling. I note in one list the driver badge shows up - which I believe is an award. I still cannot find the Verwaltungsdienst patch for Heer. I should be ready to post my work in progress this week. NH

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  3. #12
    Fred Green
    ?

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    Hello Neil,

    The drivers badge was a false production. The patches were made, in the Luftwaffe style, but they were never sanctioned by the army. There are patches out there!!

    As far as I know, the army didn't use a "V" patch for Verwaltungsdienst. There might be a False production of those also but I have never seen one.

    The two sources that I use are Brian Davis's book "GERMAN ARMY UNIFORMS AND INSIGNIA" and John Angolia's "UNIFORMS AND TRADITIONS OF THE WEHRMACHT" Vol 2.

    Fred

  4. #13

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    Fred, Correction - the driver award was erroneously listed in specialty patches on the wehrmacht.vndv.com site. There was no Heer driver patch listed there and I have never seen fake examples. The three class driver award should be kept in the award category. I do have the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine driver patches though. For some reason, I thought there was a Heer V patch for Verwaltungsdienst. I have only located the Luftwaffe version. So scratch the V patch from my Heer list! NH

  5. #14
    Fred Green
    ?

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    [QUOTE=Fred Green;835091]Hello Neil,

    The Wallfeldwebel patch changed from a "W" to an "FP" to an "FB" to a yellow cogwheel for pretty much the same job.

    I have to admit after rereading the book that the Wallfeldwebel did not change into the "FP". The Wallmeister changed to the Wallfeldwebel. The "FP" changed to an "FB" then to a cogwheel.

    Fred

  6. #15

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    I have a list of Heer specialty now that is at 30 pieces. However, there were a few patches for artillery that were short lived. Only two surface as being in a more regular issue - Richtkanonier/Artillerie and Nebelwerfer. The other artillery specialist patches are a mystery but they represented light and heavy artillery types and anti tank. Davis mentions two of them for 3.7 cm anti-tank and 2 cm - both from 1936. Perhaps these were eliminated before the war period. Verwaltungsdienst is still in question. I have only one reference to it in the Brian Davis book Badges & Insignia of the Third Reich. Erroneous perhaps? Also in question is the Panzerfunkwarte. Patch looks similar to Nachrichtenpersonal so perhaps it was a short lived variant? NH

  7. #16
    Fred Green
    ?

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    Hello Neil,

    The drivers badge that I mentioned above is manufactured exactly like the Navy and Luftwaffe models with a Heer eagle over a radiator. They are period manufacture and were produced. The army never adopted the drivers badge in this form though. The patch is a period manufactred patch but for a non-exsistant award. The army went with the 3 class sleeve award worn on the other sleeve.

    The Army's "V" or Verwaltungsdienst patch is actually the Paymaster aspariant patch. That is a Gothic "V". The Administrative NCO trade was abolished 1 October 1934. I personally do not believe that the Panzerfunkwarte patch ever existed. It was called for in regulations but I do not think that it was ever manufactured. The one pictured in ANgolia' ,Davis', and some of the wartime periodicals of a roundpatch with a yellow blitz trimmed in yellow cord is a Helferin patch in my opinion

    It looks like the list is coming along fine!! One thing that will be needed to addressed is the different ways that tresse and piping had on each patch. There was no uniform use across the board for aplication of piping and tresse. Some patches didn't use it at all!

    This is a pretty neat study into the specialty patches. I have learned alot by going back through the references again.

    Fred

  8. #17

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    Fred, Tacking on some **comments:

    Quote by Fred Green View Post
    Hello Neil,

    The drivers badge that I mentioned above is manufactured exactly like the Navy and Luftwaffe models with a Heer eagle over a radiator. They are period manufacture and were produced. The army never adopted the drivers badge in this form though. The patch is a period manufactred patch but for a non-exsistant award. The army went with the 3 class sleeve award worn on the other sleeve.
    **I think we should drop the driver's award and sniper award from the list since they more closely resemble awards in the Heer rather than strictly qualifications.

    The Army's "V" or Verwaltungsdienst patch is actually the Paymaster aspariant patch. That is a Gothic "V". The Administrative NCO trade was abolished 1 October 1934.
    **This is confusing. Zahl is pay - why would they choose a V? V is listed as Verwaltungs in one reference. This needs further investigation.

    I personally do not believe that the Panzerfunkwarte patch ever existed. It was called for in regulations but I do not think that it was ever manufactured. The one pictured in ANgolia' ,Davis', and some of the wartime periodicals of a roundpatch with a yellow blitz trimmed in yellow cord is a Helferin patch in my opinion
    **I agree. Because it has a black background I think it got confused with Panzer. Anyone operating radio or phone in a Panzer group would have a radio or nachrichten patch - perhaps with the correct Waffenfarbe.

    It looks like the list is coming along fine!! One thing that will be needed to addressed is the different ways that tresse and piping had on each patch. There was no uniform use across the board for aplication of piping and tresse. Some patches didn't use it at all!
    **A bit of Tresse at the bottom of a specialty patch usually meant someone in training to my knowledge. It makes sense because it is similar to the Tresse used on shoulder boards to denote officer in training. Piping along the edge either means the wearer is an NCO or it depicts their status as active or in reserve. There are a few references that denote the difference. NH

    This is a pretty neat study into the specialty patches. I have learned alot by going back through the references again.

    Fred

  9. #18
    Fred Green
    ?

    Default Re: Heer specialist patches - an effort to organize

    Neil,

    The Tresse and piping issues are very complex. They were not used in the same manner for all patches. For example...A Gepruftes Hufbeschlagpersonal(Qualified Farrier) Is a Horseshoe patch. With a small bit of tresse underneath the design on the patch he was then designated as an NCO Canidate. Angolia then puts a note in this chapter with this explanation of the Use of tresse. "Trade and specialist canidates(except officer canidates, paymaster canidates and medical personnel canidates) were distinguished by a horizontal tress positioned 2mm below the letter(s) or emblem. This tress bar was removed when the individual was appointed to a positionauthorized by the organizational tables."

    A subdued piece of tress is used on the Schirrmeister,Gothic "S" to denote a Kriegesgeschirrmeister or Motor vehichle maintenance personal for the duration of the war. They were not to use the piping.

    The piping in itself was used for different things during different parts of the war. At first it denoted whether a soldier was in a position in the organizational tables, then it was used to denote pre-war training over war time training, and sometimes it was part of the patch design. It is a very confusing subject. Angolia addresses it well in his book but I had to read it over a few different times to figure it out.

    Fred

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