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Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?

Article about: Hello everyone, Could I ask for help from the community for my first German Luftwaffe item, a visor cap eagle badge recently purchased. I am trying to find out if this is a real item. As one

  1. #1
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    Default Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?

    Hello everyone,

    Could I ask for help from the community for my first German Luftwaffe item, a visor cap eagle badge recently purchased. I am trying to find out if this is a real item. As one area concerns me which was not visible on the sellers picture due to the left pin covering the area in question.

    In the picture showing the reverse there is a section on the left wing upper area which is not crisp and showing the detail of the wing pattern. I have circled the area in red. This is concerning me as I am worried it is sign of a cast copy? I was under the impression that these badges where stamped? I think also on the top there might be shear marks present? So in the communities opinion is this a real or fake Zinc Luftwaffe visor eagle badge?

    Many thanks in advance.

    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?   Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?  

    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?  

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  3. #2

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    Hello welcome to the forum! IMO I think it's fine. The area of concern you point out looks to be either a Maker's Mark or what looks to be ges gesch? The badge is cast as a parting line can be seen in the image where it's held on edge. It has good detail and what looks to be worn off silver finish and period correct prongs and crimped attachment method. Just my opinion. Kindest regards.

    Brian

  4. #3
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    Quote by bsiwula1 View Post
    Hello welcome to the forum! IMO I think it's fine. The area of concern you point out looks to be either a Maker's Mark or what looks to be ges gesch? The badge is cast as a parting line can be seen in the image where it's held on edge. It has good detail and what looks to be worn off silver finish and period correct prongs and crimped attachment method. Just my opinion. Kindest regards.

    Brian
    Thank you for taking the time to comment Brian. So with regards to the Luftwaffe visor eagle badges where they produced by two different methods by various factories that either being of pressed metal or casting production methods during the period?

    I can’t see any text in the area of concern, but if that is an area of which makers marks where placed? I will look into it. Would ges gesch be stampeded onto it? I’m new to collecting military badges and have not heard about that before.

    The one thing I read on another forum which made me question the item was this reply in regards to someone who owned the tropical eagle badge, which I know is different to mine but they wrote about this persons tropical eagle badge "IMO not good, a older fake, these are made of a tough kinda tin/lead alloy with cast in prongs, looks like crimped in. I once had one of these and it was missing a prong, tried to solder a new one on .., these birds melt like butter after 2 seconds ..”

    I have tried a bend test and it seems strong, I’ve not held any heat to it like this guy did as I have only a few days left to return it if I want to, and don’t want to do any damage.

  5. #4

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    Hello. Yes I think thats a fair assumption in regards to manufacturing processes of the era. Genreally I think die stamping was more commonly done simply because it may of been faster and more efficient and worked well with aluminum (when available). Also too aluminum would be lighter thus more better suited for use on a cap to keep the weight down. With your example my opinion is mostly based on the detail of the piece as well as the age it shows, especially with the loss of the finish being apparant. I certainly wouldn't suggest doing much tampering with it in attempt to determine it's age, any type of destructive testing will surely comprise the piece and be detrimental to it's value. I still hold to my opinion of it's authenticity, I would love to see a better picture of the area of concern, just to see if it's a Maker's Mark of some sort? Kindest regards.

    Brian

    Here is I believe a mate to yours. I would like to correct myself or reverse my thoughts on it being cast however. The line I referred to as a parting line I believe is a shearing line from it being die stamped the area of concern could simply be a defect in reverse die itself.

    Need help! Luftwaffe hat insignia

    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?

    Comparison area's. Note the same prong ends (tips)
    Last edited by bsiwula1; 03-03-2019 at 09:51 PM.

  6. #5
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    Quote by bsiwula1 View Post
    Hello. Yes I think thats a fair assumption in regards to manufacturing processes of the era. Genreally I think die stamping was more commonly done simply because it may of been faster and more efficient and worked well with aluminum (when available). Also too aluminum would be lighter thus more better suited for use on a cap to keep the weight down. With your example my opinion is mostly based on the detail of the piece as well as the age it shows, especially with the loss of the finish being apparant. I certainly wouldn't suggest doing much tampering with it in attempt to determine it's age, any type of destructive testing will surely comprise the piece and be detrimental to it's value. I still hold to my opinion of it's authenticity, I would love to see a better picture of the area of concern, just to see if it's a Maker's Mark of some sort? Kindest regards.

    Brian

    Here is I believe a mate to yours. I would like to correct myself or reverse my thoughts on it being cast however. The line I referred to as a parting line I believe is a shearing line from it being die stamped the area of concern could simply be a defect in reverse die itself.

    Need help! Luftwaffe hat insignia

    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?

    Comparison area's. Note the same prong ends (tips)
    Again thank you Brian, for taking the time to comment and share that picture. That looks so similar to the area found on my item, and you are right that looking again on the item I compared it with someone else's there also appears to infect be shear lines. So most probably like you state it is a defect in the die in the area I had concern about. My dad also said the same thing about a die defect but being new to collecting and hearing stories of all the fakes out in the market I was just not sure. It's really put my mind at ease about the item and I appreciate your help finding results. I included the pictures here taken with a Macro lens.

    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?

  7. #6
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    Brian could I also ask you please if you could have a look at this "GERMAN WWII LUFTWAFFE REMOVABLE OFFICERS BREAST EAGLE" being sold by a seller which me and my brother are interested in. Do you think that this is an authentic ĎAssmann & Soní with large raised ĎAí white summer tunic badge? I included the pictures from the sellers website. Kind regards.

    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?
    Luftwaffe visor cap eagle authentic or fake?

  8. #7

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    Hello again. While I don't have an example myself. I think you are ok with this piece as well. Picture quality could be better but it's not an obvious skinny leg fake so often seen with luft breast tunic eagles. You may want to start a thread for it by itself so a discussion can be had based solely on it. But in the meantime this previous thread will help. Best regards.

    Brian


    the eagle of the Luftwaffe

  9. #8
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    Quote by bsiwula1 View Post
    Hello again. While I don't have an example myself. I think you are ok with this piece as well. Picture quality could be better but it's not an obvious skinny leg fake so often seen with luft breast tunic eagles. You may want to start a thread for it by itself so a discussion can be had based solely on it. But in the meantime this previous thread will help. Best regards.

    Brian


    the eagle of the Luftwaffe

    Great I will look into it then, thanks for all your help with these items, Iíve learned a lot. All my best.

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