Recon/cavalry - any comments and readings recommended?

[Aldo]

Thanks Todd, that explains a lot to me. Hope to see your shoulder strap display in the near future. Thanks, Al

[Phil9790]

Hi Aldo, I have checked the boards and can confirm that the prongs for the skulls are not apparent. It seems like the skulls have been mounted on the braid before the braid was sewn toghether with the underlay.

[Chopperman]

Very interesting thread
It's completely out of my area of collecting but still Very interesting.

[TWS]

Thanks Todd, that explains a lot to me. Hope to see your shoulder strap display in the near future. Thanks, Al

Hi Aldo,
Here's a quick and sloppy view of my riker mount with the earlier pointed shoulder straps. The officer candidate pair at the bottom have the ghost of chain-stitched "3" on them and the Feldwebel pair in the top row have the ghost of "71". You can see I have three pieces from the era when the straps were made of Feldgrau cloth and the pair (lower right) are even piped black for Pionier, but all others do not carry branch piping. The branch color would be reflected in the color of the chain-stitched unit number (if surviving the order to pick out the unit numbers).

[Aldo]

Thanks for the visual reference and explanation. Nice collection !

[Phil9790]

On a related topic and to come back to my collection. I have three pairs of shoulder boards with copperbrown underlay and with the unit numbers 3, 7 and 8. Could anyone shed more light on what units they think these boards are from? I understand that motorcycle troops (ie Kradmelder) had different Waffenfarbe according to the unit they were attached to, and that some bicycle troops have worn copperbrown Waffenfarbe at some point but I have the impression that there is a lot of confusion with regard to when this colour has been worn and by whom.
Thanks a lot in advance!

[TWS]

On a related topic and to come back to my collection. I have three pairs of shoulder boards with copperbrown underlay and with the unit numbers 3, 7 and 8. Could anyone shed more light on what units they think these boards are from? I understand that motorcycle troops (ie Kradmelder) had different Waffenfarbe according to the unit they were attached to, and that some bicycle troops have worn copperbrown Waffenfarbe at some point but I have the impression that there is a lot of confusion with regard to when this colour has been worn and by whom.
Thanks a lot in advance!

Could you post photos? Kradmelder meant dispatch rider (on a motorcycle). Motorcycle troops were called Kradschützen.

Copper brown (Kupferbraun) was also introduced in 1939 for reconnaissance units but was unpopular and quickly discontinued and units which had switched from the (mostly/typically) Goldgelb switched back - although it appears due to supply difficulties recon troops in the Afrika Korps tended to hold onto those straps and boards longer. That short intermission also contributed to the confusion that you rightly referred to.

[Phil9790]

My mistake. I meant of course Kradschützen. Here are some pictures. There are even different colour tones for the underlays.

[TWS]

Phil, those are some gorgeous officer boards!

It's likely that each pair of boards is from an officer in the Kradschützen-Bataillon of that respective number. Krad battalions were organized as separate battalions so the number is for battalion and not for regiment. When using Kupferbraun, the "K" device was usually not used like it was when they wore pink Waffenfarbe plus a "K" on the straps and boards. I say likely because of the short-lived foray into Kupferbraun by the recon units, and the bicycle battalions of motorized infantry divisions (with an "R" plus the number on the board/strap). To do a deep dive, you can open up Angolia and Schlicht volume 1 and go through the branch color section. They provide a year by year breakdown by color and you can follow each color over the years.

As you already know, a simple explanation eludes us, but the full complexity (for the most part) is detailed in Angolia and Schlicht. Edwards and Pruett also spend some time in their books on the uniforms of the armored forces trying to shed some light on the subject.

[Phil9790]

Hi Todd, would you have the full name of the Angolia and Schlicht book?
Thanks a lot in advance.