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Swedish M1909 Style coats in use by the Germans

Article about: Looking for some info regarding the Swedish M1909 style coats being imported and issued to the German Army. I know some officer versions were private purchases, but I am more interested in t

  1. #1

    Default Swedish M1909 Style coats in use by the Germans

    Looking for some info regarding the Swedish M1909 style coats being imported and issued to the German Army.
    I know some officer versions were private purchases, but I am more interested in the em version.
    I have seen photos of GJ soldiers wearing them along with Dietl himself. Looking for photos of both the officer version with 2 rows of buttons and em version with one row.

    Any help is appreciated - thank you !

    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,
    Join my Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

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  3. #2

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    I am confused what model you are looking for.
    I really want to help, but do you mean the 1905, (1905-10), 1913 or 1944 Swedish sheepskin winter coat?
    In Swedish they are officially known as a "Livpäls" followed by the model number / year.
    My knowledge about German uniforms is however limited, and I cannot remember if there is any German coat the is copied from the Swedish design (or the other way around - although I have a hard time imagining it. Sweden had superior winter equipment during WWII).

    ---------------------
    A quick graphic guide:

    Livpäls, M.1905:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Livpäls 1905, vit smärting. digitalmuseum. 01.jpg 
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ID:	1004733

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Livpäls 1905, vit smärting. digitalmuseum. 02.jpg 
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ID:	1004748
    (the above belonged to an officer)
    --------------------------------------

    Livpäls M.1913:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Livpäls 1913, uden smärting. digitalmuseum. 01.jpg 
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ID:	1004734

    1913: Double row of buttons:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Livpäls 1913, smärting. digitalmuseum. 01.jpg 
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ID:	1004751
    ---------------------------------

    Livpäls M.1944:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Livpäls 1944, grå smärting. digitalmuseum. 01.jpg 
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ID:	1004735
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There are several other minor differences between the versions, but the grey colour is not (officially) introduced before 1944.
    Danish, Norwegian and Swedish volunteers during the Winter War was issued the Swedish M.1913 or M.1905-10 Livpäls. A substantial amount of the older coats must have been supplied to the finish forces as well. Although I am not certain.

    Danish volunteer, Finland, January 1940:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Unavngivet.jpg 
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ID:	1004749

    The type of coat was also supplied to the Danish (DANFORCE) and Norwegian (Polititropperne) armies in exile, during their training in Sweden.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The sheepskin fur hat that went with the Livpäls is designated M/1904 (More correctly: M/1885-1904).
    Later superseded by the M1885/04/09 (known as the M/1909) and the M/1910.
    I am not aware of the exact differences between the different models, but they are all modelled on the older M/1885 fur hat.

    Pälsmössa M/1885-04:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pälsmössa M1885-04.jpg 
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ID:	1004739

    Pälsmössa M/1885-04-09:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pälsmössa 1909.jpg 
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ID:	1004740

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Onwards! Swedish soldier, 1937:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	skidmarsch 1937.jpg 
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ID:	1004750
    Last edited by 37Webbing; 10-03-2016 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Spelling and additional photos.
    Πόλεμος πάντων μεν πατήρ εστί, πάντων δε βασιλεύς.

  4. #3

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    Thank you very much !
    I am referring to Swedish M1909 Coat Sheepskin Lined Army Parka - atleast this is the designation, I found online - it matches M1905 in your photos.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Eduard-Dietl-Coming.jpg 
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ID:	1004753
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pels.jpg 
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ID:	1004752   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	A wartime Agfa color slide of a Gebirgsjäger Hauptmann eating some bread ration.jpg 
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ID:	1004754  

    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,
    Join my Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  5. #4

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    Quote by meyle77 View Post
    Thank you very much !
    I am referring to Swedish M1909 Coat Sheepskin Lined Army Parka - atleast this is the designation, I found online - it matches M1905 in your photos.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Eduard-Dietl-Coming.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	47.0 KB 
ID:	1004753
    I am glad to be of assistance.
    Scandinavian militaria from the 1900s-1950s is my one persistent weakness.

    The nomenclature confuses me, as the Swedish army does not field any "Livpäls M/1909", but a "M/1905-10" that often is designated by mistake as a M/1909. To be honest however, it is often impossible from photos to distinguish the pre-war and interbellum white Swedish sheepskin coats from each other. They all look fairly similar, but the oldest ones does not have the canvas (Swe.: "Smärting") on the outside.
    There is a lot of websites in English and numerous Ebay auctions, where the M/1909 nomenclature is used.
    Just to mention one of many sources: The Swedish "Utrustningslista" (Equipment list) from 1911 does for instance not mention a 1909 Livpäls, only the M/1905.

    But, be that as it may. We both know what you are looking for, and I will try help to the best of my abilities.

    The coats in the photos you attached are without a doubt fashioned after the Swedish coats, and most likely the 1913 version - as they are with the deep side pockets. But I see, that they vary a bit, and the officers most likely had them altered to suit their needs. The livpäls was made by several private Swedish companies, and it is not unlikely that the German army bought some. However, I cannot imagine that the Swedish companies were able to supply them in sufficient numbers, as the growing Swedish army ("Beredskapstiden") during WWII needed all the coats they could get. The volunteers, Finland and later the growing numbers of foreign soldiers (Danish and Norwegians) training in Sweden, used a lot of the coats still in storage - and new were always in high demand. The Swedish weather during winter taken into consideration.

    The left of the two bottom photos are without a doubt a Swedish livpäls - the right photo could be an early version of the M/1944 - but I don't like the buttonholes. The coat is fashioned as a Swedish one, but it is apparent that it is not an "official" model.

    Since there was a lot of German activity in Sweden (diplomatic, trade, etc.) they could easily have gotten their hands on private purchase versions - and shipped them to Germany. The design is not difficult to copy, and I am not ruling out local German production as well.

    It is a very interesting topic, and it is a shame that a list of Swedish manufacturers does not exist.
    Πόλεμος πάντων μεν πατήρ εστί, πάντων δε βασιλεύς.

  6. #5

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    Thank you again - there was discussion on WAF (Swedish uniforms used by the Wh ? - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums) regarding use of Swedish materials including the coats, but unfortunately the photos are gone. Here is another from WAF - Winter Tunic - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    Still looking for some photos.
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,
    Join my Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote by meyle77 View Post
    Thank you again - there was discussion on WAF (Swedish uniforms used by the Wh ? - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums) regarding use of Swedish materials including the coats, but unfortunately the photos are gone. Here is another from WAF - Winter Tunic - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    Still looking for some photos.
    Yes, proper photos would be a great help.
    Unless some are able to procure the official documentation - with: numbers ordered, model description, what firm, etc.
    I am reluctant to believe that most of the German coats were bought in Sweden. Maybe fashioned after Swedish coats, and made elsewhere?

    We might never know.
    Πόλεμος πάντων μεν πατήρ εστί, πάντων δε βασιλεύς.

  8. #7

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    Quote by 37Webbing View Post
    Yes, proper photos would be a great help.
    Unless some are able to procure the official documentation - with: numbers ordered, model description, what firm, etc.
    I am reluctant to believe that most of the German coats were bought in Sweden. Maybe fashioned after Swedish coats, and made elsewhere?

    We might never know.
    I would not say that all were made in Sweden, but Sweden did sell some the Germans. So far, the info i found points to use in Scandinavia. Germans were allowed to travel through Sweden so private purchases are for sure. The photo of Dietl and officer shows one wearing the "m1909". I replied to both posts on WAF and contacted posters re: photos. Search continues and thanks for the help.

  9. #8

    Default

    I would think the German Officers and Generals got them from Finnish army stock as Finland brought quite a few of these jackets from Sweden I have a white canvas one that I found in Finland a few years ago

  10. #9

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    Quote by kradman View Post
    I would think the German Officers and Generals got them from Finnish army stock as Finland brought quite a few of these jackets from Sweden I have a white canvas one that I found in Finland a few years ago
    Finland was suggested as a source as well. Any photos of yours ?
    Any markings ?

  11. #10

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    Quote by kradman View Post
    I would think the German Officers and Generals got them from Finnish army stock as Finland brought quite a few of these jackets from Sweden I have a white canvas one that I found in Finland a few years ago
    Yes, that is more plausible to be honest.
    I know that Finland received some of the older models of livpäls.
    Πόλεμος πάντων μεν πατήρ εστί, πάντων δε βασιλεύς.

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