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1st Model Railway Dagger vs. The Heer Army Dagger

Article about: Ok topic of discussion....posted below are 2 random photos I pulled off of the internet. Except for the grip both of these daggers are identical in all ways. Questions to be asked: 1. What w

  1. #51

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    Quote by JRMeda View Post
    Fred, Who were the makers of the 2nd Model Railroad daggers, that you know of?
    JR, Haven't you heard?? The "2nd Model Railroad daggers" are no longer the way a reasonably well informed collector should refer to them. Long live the Bahnschutz daggers!! So when you first asked a question with an all too obvious answer, I played it straight, and for those readers who might like a visual included a link as a reference. And now a second question that I think you already know the answer to. Which I can answer, but why don't you start another thread if you really need to know, so that this thread is not all cluttered up with unnecessary dialogue. Fred

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  3. #52

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    Fred seems to be one of the most educated and well spoken collectors! Makes him really seem like a serious collector with immense experience. He is not only an expert in SS daggers, but also Reichsbahn! What's more, he always gives clear answers and only gets involved when he understands the pieces! what luck we have! I've seen him provide so much useful information on this forum and WAF and help thin the hobby out by casting doubt on so many daggers.......

  4. #53

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    Bahnschutz Fuhrerdolch M1938 was marketed by Eickhorn (1938 Kundendienst) - and by Horster, see attached offer to supply the dagger, hanger, portepee, and other weapons/accoutrements etc., for Bahnschutz.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Reportedly, by collectors/dealers, Pack and Paul Weyersberg also supplied this model - but I have seen no primary source evidence to verify this, only third hand vet stories etc.

    Fred, sorry to branch off topic, but the question was asked and other forum members might like an opinion.

  5. #54

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    Quote by Gastvrijheid View Post
    Bahnschutz Fuhrerdolch M1938 was marketed by Eickhorn (1938 Kundendienst) - and by Horster, see attached offer to supply the dagger, hanger, portepee, and other weapons/accoutrements etc., for Bahnschutz.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Reportedly, by collectors/dealers, Pack and Paul Weyersberg also supplied this model - but I have seen no primary source evidence to verify this, only third hand vet stories etc.

    Fred, sorry to branch off topic, but the question was asked and other forum members might like an opinion.
    Gastvrijheid, On the contrary - this kind of branching off I very much like to see. Period source material. Also thinking that Wilhelm most likely will very much appreciate seeing this as well. Well Done!! With My Best Regards, Fred

  6. #55
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    Fred, What other colors other than black, have you seen on the grips of the Bahnschutz daggers ?

  7. #56
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    Fred, Do you have any proof that the Horster document is an actually legit, and that Tom Johnson's testimony in his reference is a lie?

  8. #57

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    Quote by JRMeda View Post
    Fred, Do you have any proof that the Horster document is an actually legit, and that Tom Johnson's testimony in his reference is a lie?
    Isn't the word "lie" not a bit harsh? Mr. Johnson told what he had heard and what was told to him. And so
    he did not lie. That's a difference (in my opinion)!
    I rather prefer to say it is an "imperfection", something which can happen to every author, to everyone, to
    all of us!! Occasionally stories from vets one has to take with a "pinch of salt"!

    By the way, the document from January 1939, which is shown by Gastvrijheid, fits perfectly in the timeframe
    for the so-called 2nd type of Bahnschutz-dagger and the announcements made in magazines. I do not doubt
    the document, but there is always "a but"!

    Just some other information about Bahnschutz:

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    Plate from a sales-leaflet, according 1939 information/regulations. At the bottom the new Bahnschutzführerdolch with number 30.

    The new Bahnschutz-uniforms were mentioned first in the "Schwert und Spaten"-magazine nr. 2 from February 1939,
    after changes for the uniform had started in 1938. In the SuS-magazine the hanger was included, the dagger was not even
    mentioned. This was not shown in magazines before 1941.

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    Drawing from a Bahnschutz-leader, made by Rudolf Kahl. It was intented to be included in the last volume
    for his series. But this volume never was published. Mr. Kahl always made his drawings from available photographs
    and did not just "invent" his figures.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #58

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    For the time being I cannot take part with this thread or other mayor threads/posts.
    I've got work to do, friends. Lots of work!

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    Just this morning the last part, about 150 lay-out pages, for a new book did arrive for
    controlling, send by Bender Publishing. For this I do need time, but above all my
    sincere attention of course!!
    You all will understand. This has to be and goes first as the scedule for the release of
    the book is planned about early spring 2016 or so!!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  10. #59
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    Fred, since I've not made up my mind yet as to the validity of the proported "1st model Banschutz" daggers, could you try and explain why all of the so called 2nd models have black grips, and not colored handles?

  11. #60

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    For the time being I cannot take part with this thread or other mayor threads/posts.
    I've got work to do, friends. Lots of work! ................
    Understood, wishing you success with your latest project . Thank You for taking the time from it to make some valuable contributions to this discussion. With My Best Regards, Fred

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