Army Dagger - Holler

**Wagriff** · 04-02-2014, 06:15 AM

It used to be that only "professionals" and museums could ever dream of polishing and cleaning an item. If a private collector attempted it, he was sure to immediately receive the verdict that "he ruined it". Personally, I believe that there are times when a Light and careful clean can be a good thing, but one should never polish and buff to the point of taking away crossgrain, thin plating, etc. I always look at a piece and think "What would the original owner think of his piece if he had it in his hands now?". "Would he keep the rust and the corrosion and allow it to continue eating into the metal?". It's a difficult call, where to call the line on cleaning. I don't like to see blades that have been So cleaned down that their plating is gone and their etchings are affected, but, then again, what did it look like Before the cleaning? Was there active corrosion damaging the steel? Like I said, nothing is black and white.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 04-02-2014 06:15 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Frogprince** · 04-02-2014, 07:04 AM

William, I'm basically in agreement, and as I mentioned earlier, destructive forces like corrosion I think should be stopped. But I think that it may be some of the more cosmetic factors that is what is behind some of the posted opinions. And if destroyed is too serious a description, how about injured or seriously injured? That's because (as mentioned) a too vigorous cleaning can and will in some cases remove the original plating or other type of finish. The item will still be present, but in a compromised state. I was also going to look for a TR example or two for an illustration of same - but it's late and this earlier German Army saber I think illustrates the point I'm trying to get across. Because trying to make it look new IMO could be something that can't be undone. And would be something that could seriously impact its value because a new owner can always clean an item to suit his taste - but he cannot restore a finish that is no longer there. And would cleaning this sword to make it look all bright and shiny and new really improve its appearance that much, or would it cause some doubt in the minds of those who were looking at it? Best Regards, Fred

**Rancid66** · 04-02-2014, 07:28 AM

Untouched saber - its always was wonderful to see that peaces of history.

Otherwise corrosion is not a biological process, like cancer.
Corrosion is a purely chemical process, without moisture corrosion can not occur.

Regards
Vedran

**dr73** · 04-02-2014, 11:43 AM

I think no serious collector would ever clean a dagger to make it look new. I also think that everyone on this forum would never remove a beautiful patina by pollishing a dagger. That doesn't mean many of us don't have daggers in their collection that were once pollished. I too have a few daggers in my collection that were once pollished by a previous owner. Like Tom Kendall said, you have to take them as they come. IMO it doesn't add anything when someone immediately calls such a dagger a 'destroyed dagger' or 'heavily cleaned' when it is posted here. We just post things to share our collection with fellow collectors. In fact I recently acquired a slant grip early army dagger by Christianswerk that obviously has been pollished. I will post it in 10 years from now because by then it will look a lot less pollished than it looks now

Danny

**heers68** · 04-02-2014, 01:25 PM

OK Danny, I will bite, lets see that Christianswerk!

Kevin.

**dr73** · 04-02-2014, 05:27 PM

Ok Kevin, I will post it soon. But I would like to emphasize that it wasn't me who did the cleaning

Danny

**Tank Destroyer** · 04-02-2014, 05:41 PM

No comment I am just enjoying the show.

**Frogprince** · 04-02-2014, 08:42 PM

"Cleaning" IMO is a very slippery slope. I have some Army examples stored away somewhere, but I think that this Luftwaffe example may suffice to show how a "cleaning" can lead to something else. With this supposedly "Gold-General Officer's" Luftwaffe dagger scabbard originally a matte gray zinc phosphate example that has been "cleaned" down to a zinc chromate (the metal finish, not a paint) precursor finish. Is it "destroyed" - no it's still here. But it's also not something that I would put into my own collection. Best Regards, Fred

**T Kendall** · 04-02-2014, 10:45 PM

by dr73

Ok Kevin, I will post it soon. But I would like to emphasize that it wasn't me who did the cleaning

Danny

Danny I would love to see it myself ! I have a few polished up terds I will post in the near future.

**Degens** · 04-02-2014, 11:07 PM

A dagger with thick heavy silver plate, like the original Holler posted, will tarnish and darken in no time. More so if it is left out in the open rather than in a drawer or cabinet. No real harm done so long as the cleaning stops now before the plating thins and the casting details are lost. It is actually a quality Holler with excellent plating considering it is later production matched with Generic scabbard etc.
A dagger with pot metal, alloy or other lightweight base metal fittings and you would be waiting for years for it to regain handling / age patina.
I think everyone develops their own cleaning or preservation routines, Renwax is about all I ever use.