German Dagger Upkeep

**JerryB52** · 03-19-2017, 11:27 PM

Hey folks, wanted to ask a questions about daggers since I have come across one recently and do not know much about them in general. There are several issues that I would like to address with the dagger but not do any damage to the blade in the meantime. The handle and guard are a little loose and I would imagine this is due to the handle perhaps shrinking over time? I did not want to try and remove the pommel but it seems like something very thin could fix the looseness in the handle and blade guard. Also, the fit in the scabbard is a little tight and I am not keeping it in the scabbard at the moment as I do not want to put marks on the face of the blade. The dagger overall isn't that valuable in the scope of things but I do want to care for it correctly and preserve it. I don't keep a lot for my personal collection outside of firearms but am keeping this one around. Thanks for any input or suggestions that you may offer.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-19-2017 11:27 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Wagriff** · 03-19-2017, 11:53 PM

I have to say that I am thinking this dagger is likely a post-war put together of parts. The grip-which is hard plastic-should certainly not have shrank and the sheath has no reason to fit tightly.

**JerryB52** · 03-20-2017, 01:14 AM

Is there any way to get a better fit on the blade or is it best to sell and try again? I picked it up for $200 so I had a hard time passing it up at that price. I read a little and a few folks have used thin match sticks to help tighten up the fit. The scabbard isnt overly tight but it doesnt flow in and out with ease. Seems like it has dirt and grit down in it that is causing the friction perhaps.

**Larry C** · 03-20-2017, 01:28 AM

I will move this to the Heer dagger forum..as the collectors there will be able to come all together and give the best advice.

Regards Larry

**JerryB52** · 03-20-2017, 02:10 AM

Ill post more pictures in the morning. I had it posted here a while ago but only had seller supplied pictures. I have it in hand so I can take detailed photographs.

**Wagriff** · 03-20-2017, 04:50 AM

I've seen guys that had loose Wood grips that could not be tightened, due to the wood drying, so they would put a single thickness of thin cardboard under the pummel to tighten. In the old days, guys used to even grind down the tip of the tang a hair or 2, but today, of course, this is anathema! As for the sheath? If you are Careful and use the proper width screw driver, you can Try to remove the throat from the sheath and wipe it down to clean away any grit or dirt that may be sludging it up and give it a touch of gun oil, but I still have my doubts on this rig being wartime assembled.

**gerrit** · 03-21-2017, 03:24 PM

Well William on this one i dont agree with you.
To me it looks like a textbook late WKC4 with the Eickhorn scabbardbands.
I have seen and owned textbook daggers produced by WKC and Alcoso with the same issues: non completely tightened grips, and rough scabbardsprings which made it hard to pull out the blade without using force, sometimes even feeling the rough surface of the springs hurting the blade..

I have had that same issue with an early Pack1 fitted Klaas.

Your pics arent that good but compare it with the WKC 4th pattern in the Reference book on page 239 that Danny & I published last year.
It does look like a match to me.

Best
Ger

**Wagriff** · 03-22-2017, 05:14 AM

That's the problem with late war pieces. They can fit horribly due to either the way that they were fit together and the low quality of the parts, or else they can be assembled from left over parts post-war and fit the same. There really is very little way to know for sure which is which. Either way, it would not be for me.

**Larry C** · 03-22-2017, 10:29 AM

by Wagriff

That's the problem with late war pieces. They can fit horribly due to either the way that they were fit together and the low quality of the parts, or else they can be assembled from left over parts post-war and fit the same. There really is very little way to know for sure which is which. Either way, it would not be for me.

With the Heer,..it would be the frequency in sightings (as I like to echo that phrase with SA rarity ) which these Heer daggers would of commonly be found to have the same combination of fittings during those 3 periods.

Another alternate source is the period Producers Sales catalogs which if possible to see in the period photos might show these combinations. ( This is just my thoughts )

I would put more thoughts into the material usage frequently found in combination of some of these producers who picked up the phone and said to another producer" send me over a box of these and those "

A horrid thought would be... boxes of these and those found by the GIs and ................ ?
But that would be impossible because the consistency of what has been found is exact in many findings.

Regards Larry

**gerrit** · 03-22-2017, 12:03 PM

Larry the screenshot i showed in post #7 ( Heeresdolche page 239 ) shows a late WKC 4th pattern with a totally accepted scabbard.
This one has been encountered that often that its widely accepted as a textbook variant.
This one has Eickhorn scabbardbands so its most likely they bought Eickhorn scabbards and addapted them to typical WKC scabbards.
This means it has the typical WKC feature of one scabbard screw on the right facing you.

Regards
Ger