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Heer Daggers

Article about: Hey Guys, I have two Heer Daggers one has no maker and the other by Eickhorn. Light colored dagger with hangers and portapee is unmarked dagger with no serial numbers. The other darken handl

  1. #1

    Default Heer Daggers

    Hey Guys,

    I have two Heer Daggers one has no maker and the other by Eickhorn. Light colored dagger with hangers and portapee is unmarked dagger with no serial numbers. The other darken handle is marked with Eickhorn maker mark. Again to Larry I wore my gloves again lol !!! And yes I'am in my army uniform lol

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  3. #2

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    In my opinion the crossguard and pommel on the unmarked dagger look very similar to that produced by E & F Horster at one time. I was examining one last week, and the similarity strikes me. Better wait for others thoughts though, as i'm not sure.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #3

    Default

    This is a tough one as Ned has pointed out a possibility of EF Horster...but also another possible of a WKC rarely seen second variant acknowledged as a separate design from Member Degens website..listed here wardaggers.com - German Army Dagger Crossguard Makers Reference

    Photo is protected from copying..... so going up the right side from the bottom the 4th image up listed as " WKC 2nd Similar: to none"

    Open to more comments! Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #4

    Default

    That's interesting Larry, as according to this i've just picked up off the dagger forum indicates that Horster actually used WKC parts. Check out the last two daggers at the bottom of the page, the bottom one but last has a crossguard that looks identical to the example originally posted. The big eye, beak and saw cut breast feathers look the same, as do the escutcheons on the ends of the crossguard.

    What do you think, maybe?

    E & F Hrster

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #5

    Default

    Why Not it also exhibits that same lifting of silver..but yes I have to agree also..that one is also the same. The "pop" eyed look and the breast feathering comes very close. Regards Larry. The Army dagger high command had to be the largest prostitution ring in traded and swapped out parts..I dont doubt at all that Horster would use generic or traded parts. If you look at Piel and Adey Co.foundry makers are the largest firm in SA and SS crossguards..which are commonly seen with most producers ..but not all. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #6

    Default

    So the second dagger is a mix match parts iyo Larry and Ned?? If it is I didn't take a big hit on it so no worries.

  8. #7

    Default

    Still very nice. Thanks for showing

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote by aalig50 View Post
    So the second dagger is a mix match parts iyo Larry and Ned?? If it is I didn't take a big hit on it so no worries.
    To be clear, the dagger being discussed regarding the sum of it's parts is the unmarked heer with portepee and hangers,it was probably made like this. The Eickhorn looks the same as mine except for the twin screws in the throat of the scabbard.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #9
    ?

    Default

    This is going to get complicated so bear with me. The unmarked dagger above features a crossguard that has E-Pack origins ( Pack 3rd on my crossguard page ) however Holler also purchased this base E-Pack crossguard and modified it, giving it a circular punched eye instead of the usual lazy eye that is found on Pack crossguards. If you look at the Pack 3rd and Holler 4th ( wardaggers.com - German Army Dagger Crossguard Makers Reference ) you can see that they are very similar in shape and proportions but with differences to the heads and the way the chest weave pattern is cut.
    The dagger above has all the characteristics of a Holler 4th.

    Now here is the kicker, sometimes you can ALSO find Pack 3rd's with a circular punched eye and the only way to determine the difference between it and a Holler 4th is to check the cut on the body weave pattern to the eagle and / or the scabbard bands and screws.

    Now if you have grasped all of that, it is further complicated by the fact that numerous other makers also sourced these parts, from either Holler or Pack and used them as well. What I can tell you, other than decisively naming the maker, is that this dagger certainly features parts recognised as being of E-Pack origins, albeit possibly altered by Holler and maybe purchased by one of any number of numerous smaller producers.

    If I were a betting man.........Holler would get my money. What screws are used to hold the scabbard throat?.

  11. #10

    Default

    Look like flathead screws that look not be backed off. And fits the shape of the period. Im not at home for pictures. Sorry

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