Help on crossguard

**85ronnies** · 10-26-2014, 09:43 PM

Hello chaps, I wonder if you can help me on this crossguard? I cant seem to match it with any Eickhorn crossguard

is it me or is it from a different manufacturer ? any help I would be graetfull, thanks in advance
many thanks Ronnie

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-26-2014 09:43 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**dr73** · 10-26-2014, 10:19 PM

Hi Ronnie, this Eickhorn army dagger has a generic B crossguard. Since Eickhorn was the biggest producer of army daggers, it's not likely they used a generic crossguard. Even the ones with the last "over the shoulder" trademark are equiped with the Eickhorn crossguard. This makes this dagger certainly "not textbook" and it probably is a parts dagger.

Danny

**85ronnies** · 10-26-2014, 10:41 PM

Cheers Danny

but I am not sure that it is a generic B either, as there is no slope above the eye ? what about the Herder ? what do you think cheers for the reply,
Ronnie

**Wagriff** · 10-27-2014, 12:02 AM

A tough call sometimes between the Gen. B's and the Herder's, but I would have to say that this one looks like a Herder to my eyes. The little differences in the head, beak and overall details say Herder to me.

**Degens** · 10-27-2014, 02:01 AM

Eickhorns are occasionally found with Generic fittings. Not common, but not unheard of. It was a common misnomer on GDC for many years that Eickhorn never used Generic fittings, personally I have seen too many and owned a few.
Could just as easily be a Herder as well Wags, very difficult to tell them apart. This is one of those daggers that comes down to personal choice and how much of a purist you are!.

**dr73** · 10-27-2014, 06:57 AM

I've learnt something new. I really thought Eickhorn only used their own fittings. Thanks

Danny

**heers68** · 10-27-2014, 02:42 PM

Agree with Degens.. I have seen multiple examples with the Gen "A" guard right out of the woodwork. I havent with the "B" but its possible..Kevin.

**85ronnies** · 10-27-2014, 07:23 PM

Thanks for the comments guys

I have taken the dagger apart (something I don't usually do)

and to me it looks as if it has never been apart, there was an amount of crap that has been in the grip/pommel & joint to crossguard for many moons by the look, the patina over the complete dagger is untouched or messed with so I would be happy to say this was original to the dagger,

thanks again for all the comments and feel free to post any more thoughts on this

cheers Ronnie

**gerrit** · 10-30-2014, 08:39 AM

The patina on this one fits all parts Ronnie, its in a lovely condition.
Its like Jon said: it depends on how much of a purist you are.

Personally i have a bit of a problem when i meet an Eickhorn having generic fittings, but he thats me

What keeps running thru my mind is: Why would the largest maker of edged weapons who designed 4 different guards themself, and suplied many other small firm with scabbards etc buy a generic part to complete a dagger?
For what you showed this is not a late war dagger, so there would not be great shortness.
But then again, there would be a million reasons that this guard could be a period replacement, as swastika's could break.....
Could it be a wartime piece? for sure......did this one left the factory this way? i have my doubts...
Is the reason that we see vets bring back a assurance that its an Original period piece....i dont think so, we all know how souvenirs were put together for the occupying forces.
But thats the beauty of collecting, there is Always room and space for other opinions...
And i most say its a good looking dagger Ronnie!

Regards,
Ger

**Degens** · 10-30-2014, 12:25 PM

Ger,
Here is another Generic Eickhorn to add to the debate. This time Generic A. Check out the base metals used on ALL the fittings, late war pot metal and completely matching from head to foot. You can see that the silver wash the fittings once held has been absorbed by the base metal evenly, on all the parts and exactly as you would expect on an un-messed with dagger.
This dagger has a Generic cross-guard and pommel but also an Eickhorn ferrule, scabbard and marked blade. You simply cannot match the deterioration of the base metal to match exactly 60+ years later or for that matter during the war unless all the parts were assembled at the same time in the factory, and the fittings encountered the same handling wear and tear and exposure to the elements etc. ( at least on this piece anyway! )
Best Jon