Help with british helmet mk3?

**shaune** · 03-09-2018, 09:59 AM

Hi all. Would it be possible for somebody to shed some light on this helmet please?

It's a bit of a rust bucket, but while cleaning up I revealed a green badge on the front, which says Faugh...

Does anybody know anything about it please? Any info would be very much appreciated... Thank you, Shaun

**Jerry B** · 03-09-2018, 10:37 AM

the badge of the Royal Irish Fusiliers, a crowned eagle above the motto.

In existence from the 1920's until 1968.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Irish_Fusiliers

**shaune** · 03-09-2018, 11:57 AM

Thanks Jerry, that's really interesting. Just found the logo...

I've never seen a logo like this on a ww2 helmet. Do you think it all looks original?

**M1910** · 03-09-2018, 03:58 PM

Most likely from post-war use.

**Watchdog** · 03-09-2018, 04:27 PM

by shaune

Thanks Jerry, that's really interesting. Just found the logo...

I've never seen a logo like this on a ww2 helmet. Do you think it all looks original?

This is part of the fascination of the hobby for me, not just an interesting piece like this but the background that tells so much more. The design on your helmet is what would properly be called a regimental crest (logo is much more of a civilian/commercial term) and the eagle represents the capture of the first Napoleonic eagle standard at the Battle of Barossa in 1811.

The motto "Faugh A Ballagh" which means "Clear the way" (it is an anglicised version of the orignal Irish) was that of the Royal Irish Fusiliers as Jerry says until 1968 when along with The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers and The Royal Ulster Rifles (the regiments of the N Irish Bde) they became the Royal Irish Rangers. Then in 1992 they were further amalgamated with the Ulster Defence Regiment (a unit of regular and part time personnel raised specifically for service during the N Irish "troubles") to form the present R Irish Regt whose motto is "Faugh A Ballagh". So, there is much more to every piece than just one badge relating to just one regiment at just one time in history!

A most interesting helmet the like of which I have not seen before, thanks for showing.

Regards

Mark

**Composite** · 03-09-2018, 04:58 PM

...interesting...so are we saying that this MkIII was used post '92?

For it to have been used much past it's MkIII years it'd usually have had an LTD pin fitted for the new style liner..in the Brit army at least....I don't know much about Irish-used lids...

I'm puzzled too......Mark, what is your "diagnosis"?

**Jerry B** · 03-09-2018, 06:39 PM

by Composite

...interesting...so are we saying that this MkIII was used post '92?

For it to have been used much past it's MkIII years it'd usually have had an LTD pin fitted for the new style liner..in the Brit army at least....I don't know much about Irish-used lids...

I'm puzzled too......Mark, what is your "diagnosis"?

Not IMO, used before the 68 amalgamation, probably 1950's.

**Watchdog** · 03-10-2018, 11:29 AM

by Jerry B

Not IMO, used before the 68 amalgamation, probably 1950's.

Absolutely correct IMO. The motto may have caused some confusion here but it is actually a historical "full circle" kind of thing.

It was suspended when in 1968 the Royal Irish Rangers were formed and it was re-introduced in 1992 when the Royal Irish Regiment was frormed from Royal Irish Rangers and Ulster Defence Regiment.

Along with dress, insignia etc these things are decided at MoD comittee level in consultation (if not outright argument

) with the regimental colonels and are usually based partly on seniority / precedence and partly on the desire to preserve historical links in the amalgamation.

However, in this case as Irish sensitivities are involved there would be no small measure of political consideration.

If it were simply a matter of seniority the new regiment would take that of the senior component. In this case that would be the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers "Nec Aspera Terrant" (By difficulty undaunted) which was probably considered not "sexy" or relevant enough.

Two of the components; the earlier Royal Ulster Rifles and the later Ulster Defence Regiment had the same "Quis Separabit?" (who shall separate us?), quite positive you might think but that motto is also associated with the Ulster Defence Association a protestant proscribed para-military organisation heavily involved opposite the IRA. So, that one is kind of out by default! It is also worth a mention that the name Ulster is not that politically popular as although it is one of the four provinces of Ireland (along with Leinster, Munster and Connaught) and generally accepted as comprising N. Ireland it has nine counties only six of which are N. Ireland. Three; Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan are in Eire (Republic of Ireland).

So, we are left with the motto of the Royal Irish Fusiliers "clear the way", sexy /heroic and no political bad smell. Win/win?

In the end the short answer to Ades question is; No.

Bet you wished you never asked

Who is that snoring at the back?

Regards

Mark

**shaune** · 03-16-2018, 04:00 PM

Hi all, thank you very much for all your comments.i think it's a really interesting helmet now...

A lot of the post war paint was in quite a rough state and flaking, so im afraid i wiped some of off, this has revealed quite a lot of what i presume was the original rough brown tho? And also a white painted horse shoe shape around the liner hole?

Is this of any significance? Im presuming not, but just thought id ask! Many thanks again...shaun