just a zuckerman

**plumbob** · 06-04-2012, 09:40 PM

Picked this up at my local boot sale last week.
I know they aren’t a popular helmet , but surly everyone should have one in there collection. And this is my first.
What i like about this one is the fact that it still has its issue ticket on it.
To the clerk of the town hall in cockermouth in Cumbria.
I don’t know if it was then up to him to issue it to whomever he saw fit or whether it was for himself, perhaps someone can enlighten me please.
Also is it true these were issued without chinstraps.
Any other information about it anyone has to offer please feel free to share.
As always thank in advance
Rod

**helldunkle** · 06-04-2012, 09:49 PM

Looks like this was posted direct to that clerk, so it was his lid I suspect. I have few of these and none have a chinstrap as such and none have a label like yours has, In fact never seen a label like that. One of my lids has a thin leather belt that serves a chinstrap, obviously added at some time by someone. Not sure if they were issued with chinstraps or not.

**aj4010** · 06-04-2012, 09:51 PM

Hello Rod mate, can't help you with that, but, the "do not drop" thing is hardly going to instill the new owner with confidence, methinks.

Best Regards,

Andy

**plumbob** · 06-04-2012, 10:17 PM

Yes i haven’t noticed another with a label like this either Helldunkle,
I thought that to Andy, I bet no german helmet had a warning on it like that lol.
Also this one has a broken thin wire that has been acting as a chin strap, a pretty stupid idea i think. if they did happen to be near a blast it would have acted like a cheese wire.
Thanks for the replies guys, I know its not an exciting thing. But never the less i still find it interesting.
Rod

**tinlid** · 06-04-2012, 10:23 PM

Hi Rod,
Mine has the same lable,issued to the permit officer Yorks east Riding. The FG on yours is for fire guard which took over from the SFP's in Aug 1941, all shells I've seen are dated 41, some liners are dated 40,but most are 41, I've seen one 42. They came without chin straps so people made there own, but there was one maker which called the straps adjusta pads & these fitted helmets that did'nt have the same fittings as the MkII helmet. So fitted the Zuckerman, or Civilian protective helmet as they should be called.

**plumbob** · 06-04-2012, 10:56 PM

Thanks Tinlid for that information.
I read somewhere that these were mostly bought privately. And that only two branches were issued by the government and one of them was fire guards. Maybe this is why the labelled ones are few and far between.
Yes this one is a 1941 one made by RO & CO, was this the only maker? There is no makers mark on the liner.
It has the initials W J scratched on it . I might research it sometime to see if this was the clerk there then, sometime.
I maybe don’t post much but i do admire your helmets that you do post on this forum Tinlid.
Thanks again
Rod

**tinlid** · 06-05-2012, 09:15 AM

The number of the shell makers to date that we know of is about 15, the liners are over 20.

**Greg Pickersgill** · 06-05-2012, 05:45 PM

Tinlid, I am was fascinated to read your comment that there are over 15 Zuckerman producers. That's amazing. I have *never* seen one that isn't ROCO. Can you give us a listing of what you know?

I've got a feeling that this is another one of those apparently common thus overlooked helmets about which we generally know next to nothing. I've also got a sudden feeling that there's a whole collection to be built up around the Zuckerman alone, especially when you factor in the Norwegian and Dutch and possible Pakistani (no, honest, I have seen on more than one occasion a Zuckerman that is not obviously UK or Dutch or Norwegian being passed off as Pakistani - no supporting proof tho').

Great stuff!

Greg Pickersgill

**tinlid** · 06-05-2012, 06:27 PM

Hi Greg, I can't give you them all as some are just initials & not there whole names plus someone I know is doing a book on home front lids & we've both been working on the list so would be unfair on him to disclose now. But here are some of the obvious ones. Shells:BMB,PSC,AMC,RO&CO,EC&CO,M,MOR? Liners:CC&S, BMB,JCS&WLtd,TTC,MM?

**Greg Pickersgill** · 06-05-2012, 09:11 PM

If you mean that Blake man then I'll just ask him direct then. Sooner that than wait and wait for The Book to actually appear; fellow seems to be taking the role of Marcus Cotton Jnr a bit too seriously. (Will I be too old to care when and if the Cotton book appears? It's quite possible...).

However, thanks for what you've passed on so far, including the hint as to where to go next!

Greg P