My new M17 Brodie, but why is it blue?

**Usagi Yojimbo** · 04-22-2011, 03:49 AM

Hello All,

This is the latest addition to my small collection.

The seller said the MSG on the front stands for Maine State Guard. The blue paint looks similar to some of the Belgian Brodies, but I don't feel like this a military paint job at all. The underside is OD, but may have been repainted as well, but I'm not sure. The liner looks like an M17/MkI liner, but with the felt pad and round rivets on the chinstrap brackets, I'm identifying it as an American M17.

Does anyone feel like they can confirm or deny my identification of this helmet? Don't worry about upsetting me, I would rather know what it truly is, rather than think it's something its not.

Also, how do I get the blue paint off? I'd like to restore it to the original OD green.

Oh, and the rippling along the brim, is that normal for early Brodies?

**Adrian Stevenson** · 04-22-2011, 08:22 AM

Hi, until you get firm info, I would not remove the blue paint. My feeling is it is most likely original to the helmet. Also it is part of the history of the item. In stripping this off, you are loosing this history.

Cheers, Ade.

**davejb** · 04-22-2011, 11:06 AM

Im with Ade on this one, please do not remove the paint, not only will you be removing the historic content of the helmet but the removal of very old paint can prove difficult and would require a very strong chemical which in turn will damage the underlying paint, you will be left with a messy looking lid that has lost all value in both senses

**Usagi Yojimbo** · 04-22-2011, 03:49 PM

Okay Gents, I won't remove the paint. But has anyone ever seen this kind of paint job before?

I've sent an email to the Maine Miliary Historical Society to see if they can identify/confirm this helmet as Maine State Guard helmet. I will post their reply if/when I receive one.

Sam

**Jack** · 08-27-2018, 05:28 AM

It has been 7 years and no reply to or from Sam. Why do I care? Because yesterday, I received his helmet's twin. Main difference is that, while his is an M1917, mine is a Brit Mark I. Same blue paint and same "MSG" stencil. My seller insists it is an RAF Maintenance Support Group lid from WWII. [I can't confirm this.] Sam refers to the Maine State Guard. Anybody have any ideas?

**MedicalAmmunitionCrate** · 08-28-2018, 04:05 PM

Surprised you even remembered this! Everything looks original to me.. I say it's a rare oddball helmet that you hardly ever see. And about the RAF Maintenance Helmet, I can't really help you with that. Beautiful pieces, though.. (If you're ever considering selling them in the future, message me

)

**MAP** · 08-28-2018, 04:32 PM

Given that the two were found in the US, I think the Maine connection is stronger.

As far as yours being a British made Brodie, I don't think that is a factor. The US used thousands of these during WW1 and brought them back.

Plus given that Sam's was a US made 1917, is even stronger that the origin of the paint and stencil are US

**Jack** · 08-28-2018, 05:46 PM

Well, I guess I'll have to get off my butt and research both Maine and Massachusetts State Guard possibilities. It makes sense in the 1920's and 1930's to use these WWI lids at the state level - more sense than a spurious RAF connection. Thanks, guys.

**Composite** · 08-28-2018, 06:39 PM

I can't help you re this helmet BUT I do know a little about lettering on Brit WW1-used MkI and MkII Home Front lids......and in the UK, EVERYONE thinks they know what lettering stands for (they don't by the way)...but over the last 30+ years I've had hundreds of suggestions re two and three letter-marked lids....virtually all are wrong...and some are hilarious. Your helmet would not have been used by the RAF...but I guess someone saw blue (= RAF) and "MSG" simply MUST be Maintenance Support Group mustn't it......errrr.....so a group supporting a group which actually provides.....errrr.....support....NO! So, it won't be RAF (even tho it's blue).....the only people I know who used blue helmets during the war were Incident Officers (marked "IO") and the Police who somewhat cannily marked their helmets with "POLICE"....to be honest, I'm surprised and a tad disappointed that no-one has suggested "Mono Sodium Glutamate"....'some kind of Catering staff perhaps???

The outer paints seems a lot newer than the lids themselves and the fact that there's two...and they're both State-side suggests a US-use (altho Brit Home Fronters do tend to travel well!).

It ain't RAF.......but as for "MSG".......????????

**MAP** · 08-28-2018, 08:11 PM

by Jack

Well, I guess I'll have to get off my butt and research both Maine and Massachusetts State Guard possibilities. It makes sense in the 1920's and 1930's to use these WWI lids at the state level - more sense than a spurious RAF connection. Thanks, guys.

Don't for get Montana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Mississippi and Maryland