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Heinrich Müller "buried in Jewish cemetery", new report.

Article about: On 9 March 1933, during the Nazi putsch that deposed the Bavarian government of Minister-President Heinrich Held, Müller had advocated to his superiors using force against the Nazis.[5] Iron

  1. #51
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    Quote by Scout View Post
    Actually Lehrter Bahnhof is not far from the Weidendammer Brücke, but all is relative of course. I can recommend other forum members a trip to Berlin for a spot of WWII 'After the Battle' touring, its well worth it IMO.

    Not half hearted? Well, again its relative.
    Id call a last minute (actuall well after 'twelve o'clock') going back and forth escape ending in ones unintended death for half hearted, but thats just me.
    Bormann went to the Weidendammer bridge and TURNED BACK in order to go towards the Lehrter Bahnhof.
    A well planned determined attempt of fleeing might have succeeded what ever their goal was.
    Nothing in any records, that I have read points to anything less than a too late half hearted attempt.
    But discussing that further is just splitting hairs, so lets refrain from that.

    Anyway, its correct that he was killed near Lehrter - on the way there he passed the Weidendammer and turned back.

    For a very interesting look at the route, take a peek here Info/map/links below). I just found this a little while ago and found it interesting.

    'At 23:00 hours the mass escape began. Moving in small groups, they proceeded underground, as planned, to the Friedrichstrasse station. Here they emerged to find the ruins of Berlin in flames, and Russian shells bursting everywhere around them. The first group managed to cross the river Spree by an iron footbridge that ran parallel to the Weidendammer Bridge. The remaining groups likewise emerged at the Friedrichstrasse Station, but there became confused and disoriented. They made their way north along the Friedrichstrasse to the Weidendammer Bridge, where they found their way blocked, at the bridge's north end, by an anti-tank barrier and heavy Russian fire.

    They next withdrew to the south end of the bridge, where they were soon joined by a few German tanks. Gathering about the tanks, they again pressed forward. Bormann, Artur Axmann (head of the Hitler Youth), Ludwig Stumpfegger (Hitler's surgeon), and others followed the lead tanks as far as the Ziegelstrasse. There a panzerfaust struck the lead tank. The violent explosion stunned Bormann and Stumpfegger, and wounded Axmann. All retreated to the Weidendammer Bridge.

    Now it was every man for himself. Bormann, Stumpfegger, Axmann, and others followed the tracks of the surface railway to the Lehrter station. There Bormann and Stumpfegger decided to follow the Invalidienstrasse east. Axmann elected to go west, but encountered a Russian patrol and returned on the path Bormann and Stumpfegger had taken. He soon found them. Behind the bridge, where the Invalidienstrasse crosses the railroad tracks, they lay on their backs, the moonlight on their faces. Both were dead. Axmann could see no signs of an explosion, and assumed that they had been shot in the back. He continued on his way, escaping from Berlin and spending the next six months hiding out with the Hitler Youth in the Bavarian Alps, where he was eventually captured.'

    In any event, I understand that Bormann was not shot by the Russians, as glass shards was supposedly found amongst the teeth in his skull when found decades later by Berlin city workers during construction.
    Bormann might have bitten down on a glass cyanide ampule upon finding all roads blocked and his escape attempt from the bunker futile.

    ACHTUNG!
    Map of Bormanns escape route
    Conventional Map of The Escape Route of Martin Bormann

    ACTUNG version deux - animated map of the Bormann escape route!!!
    Animated Map of The Escape Route of Martin Bormann

    Source, further info, pics of Friedrichstrasse and not least the Weidendammer Brücke (random site - I dont vouch for anything on the site)
    The Weidendammer Bridge

    The Friedrichstrasse

    The Escape Route of Martin Bormann
    I have been to Berlin many times ( 4 times this year alone ) and have followed his escape path before so i know exactly where the locations are and how things happened.

    I love the way that once you have given your opinion then it's time to refrain from further discussion as it's just splitting hairs !!

    That said my aim of of at least bringing more of the actual history of events in May 1945 has been acheived so i really can't be bothered to split any more hairs about this !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  2. #52
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    Quote by EddyR View Post
    On 9 March 1933, during the Nazi putsch that deposed the Bavarian government of Minister-President Heinrich Held, Müller had advocated to his superiors using force against the Nazis.[5] Ironically, these views aided Müller's rise as it guaranteed the hostility of the Nazis, thereby making Müller very dependent upon the patronage of Reinhard Heydrich, who in turn appreciated Müller's professionalism and skill as a policeman, and was aware of Müller's past, making Müller rely upon Heydrich's protection.[5]

    The guy was a professional police officer, he wasn't even a member of the NSDAP before 1933, some hard-line Nazi !
    Oh dear continued justification of the Chef of the Gestapo , interesting !! What happened before 1933 has no relevance the fact he was involved at Wannsee says all that needs to be known about the man.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  3. #53

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    I thought that Nazi-sympathisers were strictly prohibited on this forum?
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  4. #54

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    I thought that Nazi-sympathisers were strictly prohibited on this forum?
    Nazi-sympathiser might be a bit strong, but he seems to have a soft spot for Gestapo Heini...
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  5. #55

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    Minimizing Mueller's complicity in the murder-machine shows a lack of knowledge of the Gestapo-Organization...Klaus Barbie, the Gestapo-Chief in Lyon- was not called the "Butcher of Lyon" for nothing, and you didn't become head of Hitler's Secret Police by being a nice guy/non-Nazi, lol...They were also responsible for the execution of Allied POWs and the torture/murder of the 20th July 1944 Anti-Hitler Conspirators...
    cheers, Glenn
    Last edited by bigmacglenn; 11-03-2013 at 09:29 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote by Paul E View Post
    I have been to Berlin many times ( 4 times this year alone ) and have followed his escape path before so i know exactly where the locations are and how things happened.
    -I know hence my wording of recommending a trip to Berlin to 'other forum members' (than you). The imperative word is 'other.' I have likewise travelled to Berlin many times.

    I love the way that once you have given your opinion then it's time to refrain from further discussion as it's just splitting hairs !!
    I merely thought it of not much consequence and hoped to avoid comments like the above and further hair splitting.
    As a matter of fact, I narrowed it further down than Lehrter to Invaliedenstrasse, which is right next to Lehrter Bahnhof.
    But again, it does not matter much (to me).
    Jesus wept.

    Had I been interested in further hair splitting on this subject with you - which I am not - I'd pursue the 'well planned escape,' which I noted that you did not comment on....or that Bormann was NOT shot by the Russians, as you stated, but for the life of me, I dont get why this should be so confrontational (especially since you are a mod, you should be above this), so I bow out of further debate with you on this one, as its of no imporatance to me what so ever.


    That said my aim of of at least bringing more of the actual history of events in May 1945 has been acheived so i really can't be bothered to split any more hairs about this !!
    I dont get the last paragraph, but will let that one slide.

  7. #57

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    Nobody is minimizing Müllers role in the holocaust and all the other horrible acts of Gestapo. Obviously Müller is fully responsible, but that doesnt make him a convinced nazi, try to read a little about the man and you will find that career was much more important to him than ideology.

    In my opinion Eddy nailed it with his description of Müller, and that hardly makes him a "nazisympathiser".

    Just my 5 cents.

    Cheers, Mads

  8. #58

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    Quote by Shadwellarmy View Post
    Nobody is minimizing Müllers role in the holocaust and all the other horrible acts of Gestapo. Obviously Müller is fully responsible, but that doesnt make him a convinced nazi, try to read a little about the man and you will find that career was much more important to him than ideology.

    In my opinion Eddy nailed it with his description of Müller, and that hardly makes him a "nazisympathiser".

    Just my 5 cents.

    Cheers, Mads
    Huh??? With all due respect, his actions and deeds speak volumes about his willing participation and leadership in torture and the murder of untold innocents. He was NSDAP member4,583,199. Many members of the German Police continued with a career without joining the Party. What in his actions during the era of the 3rd Reich would lead anyone to believe he was nothing but a willing contributor and architect of terror? The old adage of "only following orders" certainly does not apply with this butcher. We can play with words but he was nothing more than homicidal monster who would do anything he could to further his career. If you do not want to call it sympathy for the NSDAP movement AS A PARTY MEMBER, than what is it?
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  9. #59

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    Bob I already answered the question you are asking, and I never said that Müller "just followed orders", I just dont think he was convinced about the nazi ideology. You can call it "playing with words" if you like, but to me its quite interesting what made the people behind the holocaust act as they did.


    Peace, Mads

  10. #60

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    I thought that Nazi-sympathisers were strictly prohibited on this forum?
    Who's a nazi-sympathiser?

    Cheers, Mads

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