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Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

Article about: As I understand, the bayonet of the Mosin Nagant 1891/30 was supposed to be kept on rifles at all times, with close combat and bayonet charges being integral to Soviet tactics... however I'v

  1. #1

    Default Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    As I understand, the bayonet of the Mosin Nagant 1891/30 was supposed to be kept on rifles at all times, with close combat and bayonet charges being integral to Soviet tactics... however I've seen photos and footage of soldiers carrying and using these rifles with no bayonets. It made me wonder: how strictly enforced was the bayonet attachment rule? Was it common to have soldiers wielding 1891/30s without the bayonet? Was it often discarded? Was there a punishment for removing the bayonet?
    The introduction of the M44 carbine with attached folding bayonet seems to have solved the problem effectively anyway, as far as I've seen the bayonet has always been extended. I always thought the bayonet usage would have been far more effective with the longer rifle however.


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  3. #2

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    I saw a picture at a show with Soviets without the bayonet. I have also seen a modified bayonet, turned into a fighting knife.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    Hello-bayonet fighting was a rare event by WW1 let alone the Second war-troops engaged in house to house fighting or getting in and out (or on and off) various vehicles didnt need the extra encumberance of a foot or more of steel on the end of the already long rifle-that being the reason the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine became the new standard Soviet infantry weapon. Much of the Soviet wartime film and photography produced was propaganda stuff given the controlled and secretive nature of the state and didn't really show actual tactics-troops armed with SMGs make a far more effective close assault than blokes with bayos. The reason you always see the M44 with the bayonet extended is that the sights are adjusted for that.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    The sight-adjustment for the affixed bayonet on the M44 seems to have been an effective configuration. Part of the reason I asked the questions is because I'm considering buying a deactivated Mosin Nagant, and I see many 91/30s for sale without the bayonets- I've wondered how accurate it really is to consider them 'incomplete' for not having them. I've also been somewhat torn between acquiring a 91/30 or an M44... I see the former as more iconic, but looking at practicalities, the M44 might be a better choice for pretty much the same reason why the Soviets introduced them; I'd be able to actually turn around with it in my room without smashing something!


  6. #5

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    I usually try to get the bayo for any rifles I collect, but then that opens the way to other accessories like the sling, cleaning kits, cloth action covers etc. The M91/30 bayo is widely available at fairly cheap prices as are the slings, cleaning kit, ammo pouches (same as the M44) but as you said the carbine is easier to have around the place-with the long rifle it was common to store the bayo reversed on the rifle when not in combat i.e. with the blade pointed back down along the barrel/forestock.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    I would think the M44 would be the exception. I've fired mine on many occasions. However my first time shooting it, I did so without the fixed bayo extended. I found my groupings weren't that great. I next tried it with the bayo extended and noticed a big improvement. This would be I assume of course because the weight of the bayo is evenly dispersed when extended. When it wasn't extended, I found my groupins ending up towards the heavier side where the bayo resided.

    Then again, I'm sure most Soviet soldiers weren't attempting to obtain 3" groupings. As long as they were within inches of the target area, it was good enough.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    My personal experiences being deployed to on multiple tours, WE never used the bayonet, never mounted it, and like some one had said why add another foot or so to the weapon, especially inside an up-armored vehicle.

    On the subject of WW2, I don't think it was used very much, as there was too much of a chance of sticking in your buddy's back, as I have read that happened a lot during WW1, with the total darkness, and crappy trenches, and such.

    Sure it would have been used, if you ran out of ammo, and that's the only weapon you have left.

    We were trained with the use of the bayonet during basic training, but like the D.I.'s said, the chances of using the bayonet in combat these days, are slim to none. There would be more chances of using the bayonet as a fighting knife for close quarters battle.


  9. #8

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    Hi Mat, if you do buy an M91/30 make sure you do buy one with a bayonet: two reasons for this:

    1) The rifle should always be fitted with the bayonet.

    2) Buying a bayonet afterwards can result in one which does not fit correctly. Often they will be a very tight fit. As a result of this, they were serial numbered to the gun during post war rebuilds due to this issue of poor manufacturing tolerances.

    The M44 being such a late war weapon don't feature that heavily in wartime photos. I would go for the M91/30 first then buy an M44 Carbine later.

    Cheers, Ade.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    I know I'm off topic here a little, but I have a newer semi auto ak-47, why is it the newer style bayonet will not stay on my rifle? should I get one of the late 50's type? anyone else have this problem? I do know that in the U.S. they are actually classified as camping knives? wierd, because I have an older one with a leather frog, it will not clamp on either, so do I need to try & get the later 50's style off ebay, any help appreciated. sorry I got off topic.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Bayonet usage... info and/or photos?

    Hi, thank you all for the responses, I'll take it all into consideration. My choice seems to be narrowed down to either an arsenal-refurbished 91/30 with bayonet, or an original condition M44 (from the Russian front). The latter appeals to me because as I've mentioned before, I believe scars add history and character. I could buy a 91/30 in such condition, but they don't include the bayonet.
    It always seems to be difficult to reasearch such things as this, I've only come across one first-hand account of a Soviet soldier describing his use of a rifle bayonet.

    crazy horse- the newer style bayonet is designed to fit the AKM, and so likewise the AK-47 bayonet will not attach to one. I know this from experience, I own an AKM and originally bought an AK-47 bayonet assuming it would be compatible- which it wasn't. I have both types now though.


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