Two Muzzleloaders Circa 1800's Identification Assistance

[laruesonbroadway]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, fellow collectors and experts. I own an antique store and I offer consignment to many of my local clients. I rarely take in firearms because I am not very knowledgeable in the subject. I recently took in two 1800's guns on consignment and, with that said, I guess you understand why I am here. I have to figure out how much to sell these for AND I have to find someone to buy them! I apologize ahead of time if this is against the rules, but I will say that if anyone on this site is interested and does purchase, I am willing to donate 10% of the sale price to this website (or more if they are worth more than I think they are)!

Before I ask for my own help, I will say that I am willing to give free appraisals on any antiques (excluding firearms) for anyone who would be able to assist in the classification and appraising of these items. This is my best way to say thank you because I understand it is your time which is very important to you and I have no idea how easily someone here will be able to classify these. So, again, I appreciate the help ahead of time and I look forward to communicating with you guys on these forums more in the future!

Okay, here I go....
Here is all the information I can give you about it and this information is all from the internet by my own research so who knows how accurate it all is! haha!

#1 (KY.zip): I was told this is a Kentucky Long Rifle. It appears to be Curly Tiger Maple. Full Stock, Muzzleloader, double set trigger, carved out square in buttstock for grease, 63" total length, 47" barrel, Octagonal shaped barrel, approx. 11mm or .43-.45 caliber. Percussion lock signed Henry Parker Warranted. The barrel is smoothbore (which means it is a musket, not a rifle, correct?). Condition is not very good and I don't believe it could be fired due to the damage. A large chunk of the stock is missing underneath the lock, a crack in the stock below the barrel, a large missing area of the stock near the muzzle of the barrel, etc.

#2 (Flintlock.zip): Full stock flintlock muzzleloader, round barrel, 39" barrel, 55.25" total length. Lock is signed "Full-Proof, Warranted". 19mm or .75 caliber, smooth-bore barrel (again making it a musket rather than a rifle if I have researched correctly, please correct me if I'm wrong). The barrel is stamped on the top just beside the lock with a crown over conjoined CP mark (London Proof?) and there is another stamp with a crown over a V (also London?). There is a small, very small, T stamp near these other two stamps. There is also "46" stamped into the stock at the elbow and an "MM" (?) stamp in the buttstock. It has its original ramrod and that's all I know about it!

I could only upload the files via compressed (.zip) file folders. I made sure to scan them before my upload so I promise they are safe. Thank you again and am looking forward to hearing back from you guys. Please if it is possible let me know about what I should ask for them and please let me know if anyone is interested and I will stay true to my promise of donating to the website.

Your help is VERY much appreciated! Looking forward to hearing back from you!

Sincerely,
Anthony White
LaRue's on Broadway
Attachment 357508
Attachment 357509

[SteveR]

Pictures should be loaded to the forum.
Administration requires this as a forum rule. Verbal descriptions do not mean anything.
Nothing will be vetted without photos.
Guarantees from strangers mean absolutly nothing.

[Patgore]

All I can say for sure without seeing good pics (or better handling the guns) is that you are correct about the markings on #2.

The crown over conjoined CP is the London proof mark used by the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers from 1672 onwards.

The crown over the V is the London viewer's mark from 1672 onwards.

Sometimes London-made barrels were used or recycled by non-London gunmakers, bearing in mind that similar barrels were in use from the 1600s until well into the 1800s.

From what you say about the condition of #1, I would not pay much for it.

Good luck with your inquiries.

Cheers,

PG

[Walkwolf]

#1 is indeed a 'Kentucky' style, but it seems to have been altered to percussion, and is not in great
condition. I would guess it may be worth $400/$600 - perhaps more.

#2 is a British 'Brown Bess' with an unusual lock marking. Seems to be period, but I am not really
sure about the engraving on the lock - if it's a contract piece, private purchase or even a replica.
It looks to be a later model (short land, India pattern), which were the last of it's type
up until the percussion era of the 1830's/1840's. These guns were the backbone
of the British Army for 100 years.........

I have always wanted an original, and as the prices have kept escalating over the past
two decades, I still do not own one. These can sell today for $2000 to $5000,
depending on where and when they were made, condition, etc.

[Battery Command Post]

The flintlock looks to be an English-made "Volunteer Pattern" Brown Bess, i.e. one made for commercial sale, not for the military, but usually purchased by (and marketed at) volunteer/part-time military units. I can't see the 'T' mark but this might well be the military maker "Tower". The other marks on the lock (FULL-PROOF and WARRANTED) are very much standard marks. The lock has all the features of a 'Tower'-made piece actually. The V and CP are proof marks. MM.. I'm not sure... Militia something?

Rob