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Fake HJ Knife

Article about: by Mac 66 Ned i,m sorry to say but these griplates you call late war celluloid are imo post war replacements, the knife you show with these celluloid griplates looks to me like the rivets ha

  1. #31
    kc1
    kc1 is offline
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    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    Wouldn't it be nice and therefore more productive if people in this hobby could put their views without having to throw teddies about.
    There is a hypothosis here that grips have been replaced with reproduction/restoration items.
    There are two, possibly, type grips here bakelite and celluloid. The reproduction ones are said to resemble the celluloid.
    There seems to be an issue to clear up from the start, were celluloid grips fitted to period items?
    If so and there are two types of grip are there damaged rivets for both types of grips?
    If only one type, celluloid (if its agreed they exist)/reproduction, has damaged rivets then based on the general quality of TR items it seems that the rivets were put in and closed at some time after the TR period.
    So a poll of items in peoples possession would be a way forward to establish this, and see what the figures say.
    Then comes the tricky part how much of an item can be restored/replaced before the item loses the title 'original' and should be sold as restored or at least marked as such.

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  3. #32

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    Quote by Mac 66 View Post
    Whats your problem?, i have told you my points about the first knife in question here & FP has supplied a blown up photo of the buggered rivets yet you still keep saying this knife is unmessed with, are you blind?, do you own any hj knifes or studied any in hand?, do you think high class dealers are god & tell the truth the whole truth & nothing but the truth? i give up as you seem to know more than me in this case
    I thought you said, quote,"End of discussion for me in this matter." You then decide this is not the case, and proceed to disabuse me as being blind, and suggest, in a thinly veiled way, that dealers such as the highly respected Tom Wittmann and his business might be, well, as you brashly insinuate, nothing but crooks.

    This thread is getting seriously off topic, and I admit that I am partly to blame for that, but you come along expousing your superior knowledge of HJ knives (let us not forget, you've owned over 100) and proceed to badmouth items offered for sale by world renowned specialists as "Buggered with", and then turn to, as a last resort it would appear, to anyone who bothered to read the entire thread, someone who agreed with your particular point of view in this matter, whether experienced or not.

    The first 15 or more posts on this thread could see no good reason why the original knife posted was bad/messed with, including the one man on this forum who's opinion I have never had cause to disagree with.

    Finally, I would like to state that I have held and examined HJ knives, but never owned a single one, but I have taken interest in them, their variations and makers. Not like you who has owned 100+.

    But at the end of the day Mac, anyone reading this thread will make up their own minds on the question of the original knife aforementioned, and your loss of temper for being questioned on your authority therein.

    Time to move on, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #33

    Thumbs down Re: Fake HJ Knife

    I now feel my own HJ is now bad even though I knew the serviceman who got it yeah what ever
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  5. #34
    ?

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    The beauty of a Forum like this is that multiple people can give their opinion and lay out their case one way or another. It is a little disappointing to see members fight each other because it takes away from all of our purpose in being here. We all are passionate about militaria and I never like to see people who share such a speciallized love of collecting ripping each other.

    If that knife is bad or "buggered" (I like that word), then it is a darn good buggering job and would fool most.

    If that knife is real then this discussuion has killed it if there is no general positive consensus on it's originality.

    I would buy it. But that is just me...

  6. #35

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    [QUOTE=ncblksmth1;306587] Its obviously fake. I believe repro blade, washer, etc. . .

    Gents I thank you for your comments. I did not intend such a boistrous ruckus as ensued. However I did need to learn how to tell a good one from a bad one.

    I feel that the rivets and grips are replacements. Seem too new against the blade and scabbard. However the HJ diamond does rock side to side as indicated one of the books I have. The gent I bought it from said he kept it in a sock in his drawer after he got it.

  7. #36

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    Gentlemen-
    Let us try to keep the debate civil. With as many manufacturers as there were making the HJ knife, we must consider the fact that certain anomolies will exist from one to another. Material shortages could certainly have also impacted later made pieces. Pictures can never be a substitute for a hands on examination.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  8. #37

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    Wish ya the best to find a good one after this oboy!!!! only one pro here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #38

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    [QUOTE=ncblksmth1;307504]
    Quote by ncblksmth1 View Post
    Gents I thank you for your comments. I did not intend such a boistrous ruckus as ensued. However I did need to learn how to tell a good one from a bad one.

    I feel that the rivets and grips are replacements. Seem too new against the blade and scabbard. However the HJ diamond does rock side to side as indicated one of the books I have. The gent I bought it from said he kept it in a sock in his drawer after he got it.
    I appreciate your coming forward with your point of view as regards the grips. And in that spirit am posting two more enlargements. After looking at them from my own perspective, it may be that just the grips are replacements.

    Here is the front and back of the dagger that started the discussion. To all of the readers: Please take a really good look at the corrosion/age on the rivets* - including those of the scabbard. Then look at the backside and pay the same attention to the rivets, with a special focus on the rivets of the grip plates which are somewhat misshaped, and bright looking as compared to rest.

    Collectors (and dealers) can be, and are fooled, if they donít pay attention to the details. And with this example the instincts of ncblksmth1 picked up on something that was out of place.

    PS: * It could also be that the grip rivets were blued replacements. But that is something that could be best determined in hand, or possibly with a few good quality macro-images. FP
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  10. #39
    ?

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    [QUOTE=ncblksmth1;307504]
    Quote by ncblksmth1 View Post
    Its obviously fake. I believe repro blade, washer, etc. . .

    Gents I thank you for your comments. I did not intend such a boistrous ruckus as ensued. However I did need to learn how to tell a good one from a bad one.

    I feel that the rivets and grips are replacements. Seem too new against the blade and scabbard. However the HJ diamond does rock side to side as indicated one of the books I have. The gent I bought it from said he kept it in a sock in his drawer after he got it.


    Thanks for confirming my thoughts on your hj knife, these replacement griplates & buggered rivets jumped out at me straight away on this knife, the original rivets have been obviously drilled out & replaced by repair rivets because thats the only way to replace these griplates, the daimond insignia will rock, wiggle, click ok in the replaced griplate as its only held in place with 2 bent over tangs when fitted into the griplate recess.

    I am not here to cause a ruckus but only to help as i have seen these repair jobs a thousand times before, i wish certain people on here would listen & take a closer detailed look before jumping the gun & causing a scene trying to make me look bad in my subject that i have been into for years & handled many a hj knife & there origional parts.

    i am done here guys.

  11. #40

    Default Re: Fake HJ Knife

    Mac , I hope you dont mean your leaving this forum !

    You are one of the true HJ knife experts I have followed, learned from and bought from!

    Nick
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

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