Very interesting topic indeed, I've only ever believed these student knifes to be post war also but this is indeed a very well made Knife. Original period made or maybe just post war I don't know but out of interest I attach my Xray of my Henckels HJ knife hilt , only a slight wiggle on this diamond but very similar to ollars ,Regards ,Paul
So Paul's X ray above, demonstrate's Gerrit's point about the flattening of the diamond prongs during assembly. So with Paul's we see a very sharp angle and prongs lying flat to the hilt. But everything is alot more rounded and loose looking in the X ray of Ollar's knife. Perhaps someone could give us a side by side image comparison?
For sure there is a difference in the x-rayed pin tangs, but that really doesn't tell us much unless we studied many real x-rayed dagger handles. This isn't 'for or against' Ollar's dagger, just a fact. I find this interesting because on one hand, we have a dagger that looks pretty good; it's not obviously messed with, pin is not glued in like many fakes. On the other hand, Frogprince makes very good points that there is also no reason at all to think this ever did exist as a period dagger.
Even though, like I said before, someone must have gone to a great deal of trouble to put this pin in the handle. Just because I can't understand why, does not mean it did not happen.
In a hobby plagued by fakes and fantasy pieces, it may be better to be suspicious then to risk accepting a bad dagger as good.
Ollar on a German forum i saw on a röntgen post so many good and bad ones, that yours would fit in the lines of the bad ones.by ollar
Careful!!! Fantasy will lead you far!
You say "Fantasy"? now i can tell you that i have seen a röntgenpicture of a HJ Knife having a Paperclip holding a diamond in place, from the outside all looked fine, i will try to dug up that picture, but it will take some time because they changed the forumsite to a new platform.
People are realy inventive when there is money involved.
Ger
I don't mind! But usually it is necessary to immediately confirm the photo!! Instead of writing,then look for the photo!
What do you mean?
you think i'm just talking and will not show you the Xray of the Paperclip?
Well Ollar, i guess you have to learn that im good for my word.
If you would take the time to look at the thousands of posts that i have posted here, you wouldnt doubt my word.
im fact you posted a lot of questionable east block stuff...
try to find that in my posts
Ger
Given the understanding that the HJ/DJ knives were made over a long period by a number of different makers with differences, and time periods are another factor. As I mentioned earlier I still don’t particularly care for some of the exterior details - that also extends to some small details of the X-Rays (röntgen) imaging that are not easily accessible. With the fact that I think that it's quite possible that the knife was taken apart and reassembled another complicating factor. While it might seem counterintuitive - some of what I find the most interesting with different items is the way they were made that oftentimes can be best seen with those that have suffered catastrophic damage of one kind or another. Which (in conjunction with my overall background) might or might not sometimes give me a different perspective than some of the other collectors.
That said - then there is the absolute lack to date of verifiable proof (as has been seen with some fakes in books, demonstrating that the items just by themselves are not necessarily proof of the matter) that the NSDStB carried a politically marked child-young persons hiking knife. What I think can be proved is that in 1929 Baldur von Schirach took over the leadership of the Nationalsozialistischer Deutscher Studentenbund (NSDStB) and was successful in making it grow. In 1931 he was named as Reichsjugendführer (Youth Leader) of the NSDAP, and in 1933 was made head of the Hitler Youth (Hitlerjugend). Also given the SA rank of Gruppenführer, he was made a state secretary in 1936. Well after the January 1935 edict was published - that makes no mention that I could find of a special political version of a hiking knife for the NSDStB. Best Regards, Fred
Love the history..thanks Fred
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
I trust you.But I'm not the only one who reads messages. And opinion is shaped. I'm from the Eastern bloc....and I just checked in. So that such answers not so many .I put the most interesting exhibits or have doubts about..I have three....And in the collection of more than 25 knife items 3 Reich...I don't sell them.I have experience and knowledge ,but I'm learning too . In your address to me ,the key word is" Eastern bloc". That's not trusting me?...You're very adamant about that word. This is a bad thing.I'm thinking.You would have increased your authority even more if you had just put a similar knife-copy..straight to your story.
When we are in the Western markets of the USA and Europe,where we buy Reich weapons....we see a lot of fakes and copies.And sellers don't want to tell the truth...say " need to sell."..so everything's all right?????Lies do not depend on the region.In the word "fantasy", I meant to be careful what you can think of building now a factory to produce high quality Reich knives....or go back 80 years!!! I'm joking!!!..I'm sorry if I offended you!!.Let's not get personal!!
Sincerely, Оllar ..
Last edited by ollar; 01-19-2019 at 07:55 AM.
Hi Ollar,
your right, there is no need to get personal.
Fact is that a lot of fakes now a days comes from Poland, and that is east bloc.
We see high end fakes and for example the Army dress daggers Horseshoe hangers in carton box, straight from the Poland line.
You need to be well known into the world of hangers and repro's to spot that one.
I will not go into details, but believe me they come from Poland, no offense ment.
In fact its not that hard to replace a diamond in the grip, and nice to see the proof with your X ray, i have seen a lot of other ones.
Fact is Ollar that this type like the Marine ones never were aproved by RZM regulations.
This "Verordnungsblatt des Reichsstudentenführers" Anordnung FO 10/38, did in fact only mentioned their uniform and did not mention headgear and knives!!
These regulations exist up to late 1943, and are provided by W. Saris, who owns them.
In time i will dig up the Xray pics, it may take a while but give me a bit of time and you will be surprised what lays beneath some gripplates!
Ger
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