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Hitler Youth Knife Diamond Variations From 1933-1942

Article about: Hi Collectors, here is a quick referance thread on the different variations of hj knife daimond insignias through the years from early 1933-1942: 1st Early Period Smallest Daimond From 1933-

  1. #41
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    Quote by Mediumtall View Post
    -- Thanks Mac 66. Do you know why these opaque variations were made? Is it just a case of a particular maker putting their own spin on things? And are these opaque variations more desired by collectors?

    Not 100% sure why they made & used the opaque enamel on there hj knife diamonds but the opaque enamel was used on other TR badges & pins during the period : i.e > party badges, hj members badges ect , some collectors do not like them others do, Jo Rivetts book called The Party badge goes into the use of opaque enamel on TR badges: The Party Badge - B&D Publishing LLC , heres a good read on the subject over on WAF

    HJ Knife solid red diamonds - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums



    Mac 66.
    Last edited by Mac 66; 02-03-2015 at 09:52 PM.

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  3. #42
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    slightly darker diamonds from two transitionel hj s rob.-müller rzm m7/32
    large diamond 15x25mm of two

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    greeting

  4. #43
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    Another Solid Red enamel diamond for the hj knife for referance: RZM M1/13 L. Christian Lauer, Nürmberg
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  5. #44

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    Amazing these things that there were so many sub contractors to these Diamonds and other fittings..which many seem to feel only one varied type were produced. That theory is now proven opposite. Great photographic evidence Scott.. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #45

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    1st Early Period Smallest Daimond From 1933-1936: 20mm x 13mm.
    I would like to know where this comes from?

    In the earliest official publications in 1933 about the HJ-symbol, as well as the
    manufacturing details for the dagger at that moment, the sizes were not as
    mentioned above. Sizes were given specifically!
    The size for the diamond was the same between 1933 and into about 1938,
    when the size changed. 20 mm was not mentioned anywhere! There is no
    difference for the diamond for the early headgear or dagger-grip diamond.
    Sizes were allowed to vary for 1.0 mm or about according the manufacturing-
    specifications. In 1938 the length was described as 2.5 cm in the dagger
    manufacturing-regulation.

    Official specification from 1933 from the Reichsjugendführung:
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    It would be great when someone can state the 2.0 cm size with an official
    document from that period! Note the difference of 0.5 mm with the drawing
    and as mentioned in the text!!

    Specifications respectively 1933, 1936 and 1938:

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    (1933: Die Uniformen der HJ, as well as Bekleidung und Abzeichen der HJ,
    the official regulation from January 15, 1934. The book was in preparation in 1933
    and so was the specification for the dagger)

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    (1936: Herstellunngsvorschriften der Reichszeugmeisterei)

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    (1938: ibid)

    The HJ-knife was introduced in the summer of 1933, actually for the first time
    mentioned August 10, 1933 and for the order for a special meeting August 31,
    1933, published in the "Verordnungsblatt der Reichsjugendführung (HJ))",
    (issue 15 from August 10, 1933 and issue 16 from August 16, 1933) and actually
    to be worn since mid-August (alle Gliederungen tragen nach Möglichkeit geschlossen
    und einheitlich das Fahrtenmesser der HJ. Andere als die amtliche Fahrtenmesser
    der RJF sind nicht zugelassen
    ).

    Of course lots of HJ-diamonds were made with slight different sizes and so, but
    I just did quote from what officially should be done.
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 02-18-2016 at 02:51 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  7. #46
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    [QUOTE=Wilhelm Saris;1582665]1st Early Period Smallest Daimond From 1933-1936: 20mm x 13mm.
    I would like to know where this comes from?


    Hi Wilhelm,

    The size comes from the early 1933 - 1936 no ricasso hj knifes, you can see the difference in size by just looking at them both without having to measure the difference of the early diamonds to the 1936 - 1938 diamonds on the transitional period dual marked hj knifes, see post #1

    Many thanks for posting the official publications from 1933, interesting indeed



    Regards Mac 66.

  8. #47

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    Hi Mac 66,

    as mentioned I quoted from the official sources where a 2.0 cm length diamond
    was not included (the official size I gave with the drawing and text-parts and
    from 1933 up throuh 1938 the official length was about 2.3 cm).

    I know very well manufacturer's did not follow procedures and so it is possible
    deviating sizes do exist, but in fact there are only two official sizes as according
    to the RJF and RZM. 20.0 mm is not one of them.

    The RZM-controllers could have taken notice and later a withdrawing from the
    permission could be the result. I have not the time for that, otherwise I could
    make a list of those manufacturers that lost their permission between 1935 and
    1944. I bet there were quite some (as it was with headgear and buckles)!

    To give an idea: in the list from Clyde Davis he has about 118 numbers in total.
    When I take the 1938 RZM-list there were about 50 up to the numbers 81 (as
    noted in the list from mr. Davis). So about 30 already lost their permission in
    about four years! A few to mention:
    August Müller
    Krebs
    Lauterjung
    Lüneschloss
    Heller
    Meis
    Weyersberg and so on.
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 02-18-2016 at 06:35 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #48
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    Hi Wilhelm,


    Great information from you on this subject, many thanks

    do you have any info on the later solid red/opaque enamel hj knife diamonds ?

    Hj members pins & hat pins also came with solid red enamel as did NSDAP party badges.




    Regards Mac 66.

  10. #49
    JMM
    JMM is offline
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    Great thread. Thanks for the info.

  11. #50

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    Quote by Mac 66 View Post
    Hi Wilhelm, Great information from you on this subject, many thanks
    do you have any info on the later solid red/opaque enamel hj knife diamonds ? Hj members pins & hat pins also
    came with solid red enamel as did NSDAP party badges. Regards Mac 66.
    Hello,

    I will have a look, but I cannot remember having later manufacturing specifications
    on this subject. Cannot remember how they eventually were described and most
    cataloques neither do give this information (I have hardly ever seen cataloques
    later then 1940).

    It might be of interest the HJ-badge was about April 1933 officially only manufactured
    by the concern of Ferd. Hofstätter, who had the sole right (allein Herstellungsberechtigt),
    the normal size as well as the Lilliput-version (which is about half the size of the normal).

    Only the RJF Materialamt was allowed to sell the badges to all official HJ departments. It
    was asked to inform the RZM when badges were seen or offered, having other manufacturers
    markings. It was known other manufacturer made them, but in fact were not authorized at all.
    It was asked to report the offenders.
    (note from the "Verordnungsblatt der RJF" nr. 5 from April 13, 1933, page 7).
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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