Hitler Youth Knife Diamond Variations From 1933-1942

[Mac 66]

Hi Wilhelm,

That would be great if you can find any info at all on the solid red enamel hj pins,

now back to the subject of the 20mm x 13mm early knife diamonds exact size i may have been a little off by maybe 1mm or so on the 20mm size as i measured with my ruler so i will double check when i have a little more time to give an exact size of the early diamonds on my early knifes now that i have a set of digital calipers that i did not have when i started this thread & if i,m wrong i will get Larry to edit the start of this thread on the diamond sizes.



Best Mac 66.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Mac66: I cannot find anything about the opaque form.

I intended to make a list from all HJ dagger manufacturers when they lost their
permission, but if I will succeed is the question. The RZM was not consequent
with announcing withdrawing permissions and neither consequent with noting
when a new concern got its permission. I will see to finish and and then decide
if I will "publish" it here at WRF or not!

I found a few things that may interest HJ dagger collectors:
a) the leather was to be black since August 1936;
b) a 2.0 cm size was not ever mentioned;
c) the manufacturing regulation was first published in the RZM source with the date
September 14, 1935. Before the introduction for the M7-code, the code for these
daggers was JMH, which possibly may mean: Jugend-Messer-Hersteller. I can
not get this 100% positively stated. Occasionally also the indication FM was used,
which may stand for Fahrtenmesser;
d) most important: it is earlier noted the badge 2.5 x 1.45 cm came into being in
1938. This is NOT correct. The exact date from the announcement in the
Mitteilungsblatt der RZM was from July 17, 1937. With that date the
size 2.5x1.45 cm was noted (Ausschnitt für HJ-Abzeichen).

[Mac 66]

[QUOTE=Wilhelm Saris;1583118]Mac66:


b) a 2.0 cm size was not ever mentioned;


My bad mistake & you are correct with this new info, thanks for bringing it to my attention


early 1933 thin blade no ricasso hj knifes up to the 1938 period transitional dual marked knifes had the 23mm x 13mm diamonds, 20mm size will now be deleted/edited from post #1, also will edit to correct size the later 1938 - 1942 diamonds to > 25mm x 14.5mm, Larry or Ade i will need help from you guys to edit post #1



Regards Mac 66.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Thanks Mac66

This is for the benefit of all of the HJ dagger collectors.

I made a "quick and dirty", provisional list from dagger manufacturers as to M7.
I used for that the list from Clyde Davis and added dates (new entry means: first mentioned
the number was granted; withdrawn/revoked means the date as given in an issue from
the RZM-periodical)
For that I checked all available information from the Reichszeugmeisterei, so the
handbook from 1935 and the official RZM-list from 1938. Further I went through
all issues from the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM from 1934 through 1944.

The handbook and 1938-list are indicated with a red cross. Due to the fact not all was
published apparently and the RZM was not quite accurate between 1935 and about 1938
it is possible some contractors lost their permission, which was not mentioned or others
got a permission, but this was never published either. It is possible I have overseen
the one or the other thing, as the list was made in a hurry, but gives a global view about
how and what!











It is obvious that after March 1939 no new permissions were granted and the highest
noted number was 118.



I do also include a text-part as from the Davis-booklet, related to some numbers,
read this. I can assure you these numbers were not at all noted in the RZM sources
and from April 1938 there was more accuracy. It always has been my opinion the
numbers mentioned by Angolia were not at all numbers from the RZM, but numbers
related to the granting of permissions from other organizations, as for example
the RAD or NSFK. This is a possibility, as I know for headgear - not being political -
also manufacturers got a permission from specific sources.

Some other interesting facts I did read in the RZM-source:
a) November 19, 1938 the zinc grips (zamak 2) for the HJ dagger were annnounced
and came into being:
b) with a note from February 20, 1943 one can conclude that from this moment on
hardly any HJ-dagger was produced. Manufacturing was mentioned to be stopped.
The subject was not returned.

[Wilhelm Saris]

[QUOTE=Mac 66;1583157]

Mac66:
also will edit to correct size the later 1938 - 1942 diamonds to > 25mm x 14.5mm, Larry or Ade i will need help from you guys to edit post #1
Regards Mac 66.

You also should edit 1938 into 1937 as in post 53 I give the exact date for the change.

[Mac 66]

[QUOTE=Wilhelm Saris;1583194]

You also should edit 1938 into 1937 as in post 53 I give the exact date for the change.

Hi Wilhelm,


Many thanks for all this info from the Reichszeugmeisterei & Mitteilungsblatt der RZM , much appreciate

very nice to know all the exact dates to the change to the larger 25 x 14.5 diamond in July 17th 1937 & date relating to the change to the Zink grip/handle on Nov 19th 1938,

all will be edited to the correct info asap.



Regards Mac 66.

[Frogprince]

As always, the valuable contributions of Wilhelm Saris add some very interesting verified period information to the disscusion. Best Regards, Fred

[maxxx]

HJ Diamond RZM 15 13 x 23 mm



gr
mx

[gerrit]

HJ Diamond RZM 15 13 x 23 mm



gr
mx

Nice one Jens, but which maker is it?
I can read 15?

Ger

[maxxx]

Nice one Jens, but which maker is it?
I can read 15?

Ger

hi ger,

.....only RZM and 15
RZM 15 = Ferdinand Hoffstätter, Bonn am Rhein

Hitler Youth Knife Diamond Variations From 1933-1942
post#15 by stingray

gr