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Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

Article about: This HJ dagger has all the signs of a late RZM ricasso knife. The knife has a zinc based alloy grip. It has the larger RZM diamond. The scabbard has 2 springs, all the knife is screaming LAT

  1. #1
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    Default Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    This HJ dagger has all the signs of a late RZM ricasso knife.
    The knife has a zinc based alloy grip.
    It has the larger RZM diamond.
    The scabbard has 2 springs, all the knife is screaming LATE but then looking at its blade....The Motto is there!!
    So a late transitional you might think....
    It is etched nice and deep, no doubt its period!
    But turning it to its back it has no maker mark!
    Still lots of the Original cross grainon the back side but no trace of a mark, there has never been one im sure!
    Im pretty sure the blade slipped thru the controls.
    I think its a mid 1938 knife, just before the Motto was abandoned.
    It's former owner carved his initials in the grip plate on the back.
    The hilt has suffered a bit from moisture, the lacquer on the scabbard has the typical spidering.
    Hilt has snap wear, all fits...but they forgot the makers mark!
    and that with the Motto makes it pretty rare

    Cheers,
    Ger
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by gerrit; 07-03-2013 at 12:20 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    Hi Gerrit where did you find this one..the etch on this is uncommonly deep?...looks great!
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    That's interesting knife. As you say it was made around 1938 or even early 1939.
    My guess,it could be the Eickhorn,because the rounded tip of the scabbard.

    Regards
    Stingray

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    This one is straight from Germany

    Ivan the round scabbard tip can indeed be an Eickhorn, will compare it later on with my other Eicks.
    And will try to find some in Ralfs Npea & Hj book
    Will post the results.

    Ger

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    Ger,


    I have seen this hj knife before on WAF & had people asking me questions about it !

    To me the deep motto & scabbard with rounded tip shout out Eickhorn, check out the Trans Eick motto on lakesidetrader website its very similar!
    Lakesidetrader | German WWII Daggers & Medals

    Why there is no maker mark or RZM stamp is anybodys guess but could have slipped thru unnoticed on a monday morning but thats what makes this piece interesting, "The Unknown"



    Regards Mac 66.
    Last edited by Larry C; 07-04-2013 at 01:17 AM.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    EUREKA! its a E&F Horster!

    got the maker identified!
    after digging into the referenz books i soon found out that determing it could not be done by tracking down the scabbards maker.
    The scabbards could be changed during meetings, on camp events etc, and the fact that i encountered at least 4 different makers that used in one time of their history blunt tips.

    So i focused on the Devise, what stroke me was that the font of this device is more round rather then edgy and it is also unusual deep.
    The font is slightly different compared to the standard Device thats commonly seen: looking at the lower loop in the B, or looking at the angle where the N enters the D ( Und)
    On page 386 from the Npea & HJ book of R.Siegert i found the exact Motto and its maker:
    E&F Horster, he also has a picture of the Device with the remark: unusual deep etching, and this font matches my knife 100%

    ive made a picture from the device on page 386 (source: R.Siegert) and from my knife so you can compare the two!
    Cheers,
    Ger
    the first 4 pics are the E&F from the book of R.Siegert
    the last 2 on the bottom are my from my unmarked knife!
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #7

    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    Nice one!
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    Truly an anomaly ! I especially like the deep motto. The diamond is in fine condition as well. As for the round tip on the scabbard, i first thought it was the BDM type. Am I right the BDM had round tips?

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    Some good police work Ger..well done & it does pay to do some digging around...Well done. Cheers Terry.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Late 1938 HJ Fahrtenmesser with Motto but no maker :)

    Detective Gerrit, Great Job
    Maybe the blade had the Ink RZM stamp like these examples but has worn away?

    Regards Mac 66.


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