Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30

Post WW2 German Scouting / HJ Knife Transition Discussion

Article about: Show us current HJ knives by past producers..being produced today. Regards Larry Members are invited to input any maker background inf they have on these. Photos are top to bottom (maker mar

  1. #11

    Default Comparison Helps Too

    The Hitler Jugend (HJ) of Nazideuschland and post-war german youth groups have a great deal in common, originating from traditional scouting, such as "Kohten", "Jurten", "Jujas" and many of the songs of Federal tradition. Nevertheless differences between both Scouts and Hitler Youth can still to be found, the largest being probably the education concept of scouts, rejected by Hess. They still do target shooting (even if they transferred in practice much of it). At the 1988 Meissner, which took place on the the 75th anniversary of the Free-German-Youth-Day, numerous Scouts participated out there on the rifle range.

    Feel at ease to compare the wartime and postwar era because it helps to comprehend just what is going on here.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default David Everts post-war HJ / Fahrtenmesser

    Social control in post-war (1950's) Germany prohibited people from carrying "Pathfinder" and "HJ transition Fahrtenmesser" in public.
    Other kinds of fixed blade sheath knives were allowed though. Forbidden and socially not acceptable but they liked them alots before.

    The photo (second down from top) at the start of this topic I started is what I am sharing maker history on in this post (D. Everts) Solingen.

    David Everts Company began making knives in 1802. Along comes Ludwig Groten who himself founded a pocket knife factory in 1922. Ludwig really liked to make SA daggers also.
    The photo attached below shows the "crossed flags" pictorial logo that he used on David Everts brand starting 1960 when Ludwig Goten changed his company name. Compare the similarities of the 1947 and the 1960 logos and notice the similarities.
    Ludwig Goten acquired other Solingen cutlery firms also.
    Eventually his son sold out in 1980 and what was left drifted up to 1997 then with new management steadily pooping out and closed entirely in 2009.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #13

    Default Austrian Youth Groups and the HJ knife

    A professional scholarship on Adolf Hitler and his power structure has all but disappeared since the 1950-60's.
    The following is in reference to my topic grouping photo of the brown handled (second up from bottom) HJ style knife:

    During the Meissnerformel (1929), 33 boy and 22 girl German speaking Austrian Youth Groups were founded. After the Anchluss of Austria to Nazi's (1938) these were banned then transferred to the HJ entirely. Here is where similarities in the Austrian HJ knife and the German HJ knife are first adopted.
    This knife may well be the only example to be documented on the internet.
    It is made by Wenger and shows their pictorial logo (crossbow) along side a stamped "Edelweiss" on the blade itself, (see photos below). The guard is made from aluminium and much lighter than any Bulgarian made "Brannik" or Robert Klaas made "Guardian" Youth Organization HJ style knife (1942-45).
    The "Edelweiss" flower is a symbol used for mountain troops. Important to have lightweight gear when backpack hiking in the Alps.
    This example has a sawback spine and can sell for upwards of $900.

    In 1953 the Junge Bund was founded in Austria and remains independent and without religious restrictions to this day.
    Superficially these scouts look very similar in appearance to Hitler Youth (see photo below).
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P206s.jpg 
Views:	927 
Size:	44.4 KB 
ID:	666759   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wengerinox.jpg 
Views:	402 
Size:	178.3 KB 
ID:	666757  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #14

    Default F.E.S. Scout Knife-Anton Wingen Jr.-Othello HJ knives

    "It fosters the dialogue between democratic forces with the aim of bringing about a balance of interests, resolving conflicts and drawing up policy options. It cooperates in this process with partners from various societal groups and organisations, such as trade unions, political parties, educational and research institutions, public administrations, and also city and local governments."

    The quote above describes the purpose of the Friedrich Ebert Foundation headquartered in Bonn and Berlin.
    F.E.S. (Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung) "Stiftung" is German for "Foundation".

    This is marked on the ricasso of the scout knife in my topic grouping photo with the green handle (last photo from top).

    Friedrich Ebert was Germany's first democratically elected President. The foundation in his name was founded in 1925 and helps international cooperation and peace. It currently has a network of branch offices in over 100 countries.

    This knife is made by Anton Wingen Jr. 's "Othello" brand in Solingen. Many of these scout knives are pictured below (see photos) all F.E.S. marked or "Othello".

    Anton Wingen Jr. was RZM (M7/51) and made a WW2 era HJ knife (also in photos below).

    Currently you may be able to purchase these " not so top of the line" post-war HJ style knives through this link:
    ferd-everts-sohn.de

    Some "top line" products are "Othello" Black Forest Hunting Bowie's , ROT PUNKT (Wurfmesser-Throwing), and the 1959 "Trapdoor" German Bund Gravity Knife (PRICE: $250).
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pix498359177.jpg 
Views:	1169 
Size:	129.6 KB 
ID:	667062   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0024.JPG 
Views:	1613 
Size:	196.4 KB 
ID:	667066  

    Attached Images Attached Images      

  6. #15

    Default

    Wow..I had one of those knives in the 1970s..pictured with the half red and white diamond above...which I still have to this day. Just out of curiosity..who made the knife that I speak of..was it Anton Wingen? Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #16

    Default

    Yes Larry, Yours is a genuine Anton Wingen Jr. "Othello" brand. It will not say that on your particular post-war HJ style knife (F.E.S.) marked only.

    This information was obtained from a private seller in Solingen who had an ad in the German equivalent of EBay which I needed to translate to English.

    These only sell for about $30 but Anton Wingen Jr. is permanently closed and his factory vandalized then demolished so there is only "old stock" available currently.

    If understood in the proper perspective and not with disgust the value will certainly increase over many years.

  8. #17

    Default

    All these years and now finding out. I would of taken better care of it if I knew this information before hand. I will dig mine out and shoot some pics and post them. Thanks for the identity of the red white diamond. Cool militaria regards Larry
    Last edited by Larry C; 03-30-2016 at 03:05 AM.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #18

    Default Jacobs & Co. post-war HJ knife

    Jacobs & Co. SA Dagger

    "Here is a recent addition to my collection, an SA dagger made by Jacobs & Co. Solingen-Grafrath. It is group marked Ha. Although not my first SA, having sold the two that I've previously owned, this one is a keeper!"

    This is a topic that was raised by a member on 04/21/2010 here on this site.

    The SA Dagger by Jacobs & Co. during WW2 had a transitional makers mark (RZM M7/118) that is a legitimate manufacturer. (see photos below).

    Jacobs & Co. also used RZM M7/118 on HJ knives but is considered to be a fairly uncommon maker. A close-up of the diamond is shown below as well as side by side with scabbard. (see photos below).

    This comparison relates to this topic I started with the group knife photo (fourth from right to left) maker mark photo (fourth down from top).

    Jacobs & Co. also made stag horn carving sets for dinner parties and festival feasts. (see photos below).
    PRICE $374.

    An SA Dagger with both maker mark and RZM ID# sells for $285. (Transitional)

    It makes sense that Jacobs & Co. liked festivals because Munich is a fun place and also is the formal office location of the Reichszeugmeisterei (RZM) Quartermaster.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC03489.JPG 
Views:	151 
Size:	44.1 KB 
ID:	667677   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC03485.JPG 
Views:	117 
Size:	70.2 KB 
ID:	667676  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	$(KGrHqN,!lcE6hbFHsDRBO7goT5CVw~~60_3.JPG 
Views:	100 
Size:	76.0 KB 
ID:	667679   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC03487.JPG 
Views:	426 
Size:	49.6 KB 
ID:	667681  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	$(KGrHqR,!poE7Bcvhiq7BO7gn7b4lQ~~60_3.JPG 
Views:	135 
Size:	38.3 KB 
ID:	667682  
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  10. #19

    Default

    I would love to see a separate post in the SA section of the transitional Jacobs dagger if you have more photos. I also noticed what looks to be a plain red diamond in the HJ knife..also worthy in the HJ forum for discussion. I see what you mean in comparison. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  11. #20

    Default

    Thanks Larry for your interest in post-war and transitional marked German "special" knives and daggers of historical 3rd. Reich designers. HJ style and also SA type seem melded over in modern times between today's "greens" and their Nazi birth.
    German scouting still uses HJ type knives and blazes the trail believing in Teutonic Nationalism and freedom from stifling adult authority. Still felt as a common movement but has several branches, some with shared tenants and similarities with Hitler Youth right wing groups (neo-Nazi's).

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. German post war gravity knife.

    In Bundeswehr forum
    07-22-2013, 08:23 AM
  2. 07-15-2013, 07:54 PM
  3. German WWII pioneer knife - original or post war?

    In Daggers and Swords of the Third Reich
    03-04-2013, 04:16 PM
  4. M18 Transition helmet

    In Steel Helmets
    05-29-2012, 04:06 AM
  5. 10-12-2010, 08:29 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •