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by
maxxx
against fire?
Briefly - not in hand for examination/testing or present when it happened, I see that the leather parts of the scabbard are not charred/burned so was it in actual contact with a fire or just too close to a heat source? Using Celluloid as a generic term for two different cellulose resins with one flammable that could be inhibited somewhat by altering the formulation, and the other not flammable. Both were very common thermoplastics of that era, meaning they were moldable and could be remolded (change shape) being used for all sorts of things before the invention of the replacements commonly used now. Easily molded at 212 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Centigrade/Celsius) which is the temperature of boiing water and decomposing at 293 degrees Fahrenheit (145 degrees Centigrade/Celsius). With the phenol-formaldehyde resin commonly known as Bakelite, after it's molded when heated not changing shape, but beginning to char at 570 degrees Fahrenheit (300 degrees Centigrade/Celsius). Best Regards, Fred
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03-19-2016 06:34 PM
# ADS
Circuit advertisement
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by
maxxx
the handle is made of bakelite,see also here:
https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Archi...em.php?ID=7991
the seller has been given by the owner (at that time hj boy) 40 years ago it,he told him the knife was too close to the campfire.
maybe he has something carved or peeled?
the scabbard hung on belt.
for me the piece is 100% authentic and it was very cheap
Excuse my english!
mx
Maxxx, Being a legitimate item was never in question, and your English is fine and no doubt better than my German. When I started collecting daggers - guys told me that the steel scabbards were "anodized". Which is probably why and when I began to question some of their other assumptions as either right or wrong, or without a provable basis - with the anodized one in the wrong category. The Germans of that period using both the celluloid (with the celluloid usually over a more stable wood base, but it can be made solid) and the Bakelite types of plastics on dagger grips. Also specifying Bakelite or hard rubber (which without testing would be my second choice) for the HJ knives early in the RZM time frame. But this is not the standard HJ knife pictured in the period RZM documentation that specifies those grip materials. And in the pictures I see what looks very much like melting to me - still not of the opinion that it's actually Bakelite without some testing and/or further information. Best Regards, Fred
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hi fred,
I am not familiar with based materials.
I go out of bakelite from as many collectibles that say so.
it could of course be any other material from this time.
it would be interesting to explore the material which.
that would be new insights for the collector.
as can be found out from what material the handles are?
greeting
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Hello there news.
I was talking with a very experienced collectors from Germany.
He had earlier also some of these knives.
he said it is not a bakelite but a mix of wood and another material.
exactly he does not know it but it is actually not a bakelite.
perhaps a mix of wood with rubber?
gr
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In use since the 19th century as a natural based plastic resin there were some variables depending on the resin source, it was used for early period molded pistol grips and other items. With the Germans of the period using wood particles as a filler (and possibly reinforcement) with the later Phenolic resins. So I think that the idea of a type of rubber based grip is worth looking into. Best Regards, Fred
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Yes it could be, plastic resin, wood mix.
thanks to you for intensive research!
greetings
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Max i would leave it as it is, it has changed during that campfire but is an Original early pattern A.Wingen which is very hard to find .
I like it and congratz!
Regards
Ger
Last edited by gerrit; 01-17-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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best left alone my friend it's part of it's history which makes it more special.
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