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ss hj knife / bayonet

Article about: Hello, this is an original or a fake? 1.Modell SS-Dolch..!!L@@K I know this knife just in a different form greeting

  1. #11
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    Quote by Mac 66 View Post
    WW1 private purchase trench knife that is supposed to look like an hj honour bayo/knife


    I do not like the etch or the stupid price , the dealer is a robber & sells dodgey goods
    I found the hilt etch quite convincing, but after studying the blade etch it seems to lack detail and especially depth.
    Scott i made an appointment with Specsavers this very afternoon......

    Ger

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  3. #12

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    "In hand" is best and does away with trying to make guesses using less than optimal imaging. With the depth of the etching one item that needs a good look, and another IMO the nickel plating (or lack of). With these early knives using a type of nickel plating that more or less became obsolete later in the TR period. Especially liking the example from kreta1961 (Gerd) that was posted on the thread that Jim P provided the link for:

    Rare early HJ Bayonet

    Best Regards, Fred

  4. #13
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    her is imo a good original early knife...link:Hitler Youth Honor Knife

    Click image for larger version. 

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    greeting
    Last edited by maxxx; 05-01-2015 at 08:48 PM.

  5. #14

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    The photos posted are nicely done, and from what's in the images it looks good to me as well. With the minor disagreement from my perspective being that it's not IMO really an "Honor" knife - but rather a pre-RZM controlled "Precursor" knife that was arguably decoratively designed to appeal to the youthful members of the Hitler Youth. Realizing of course that at least several generations of collectors have perhaps not intentionally been mislead by the "Honor-Bayonet" (or knife) name that various books/authors/dealers/collectors/whatever have been using for decades. Which changed when the NSDAP took control of Germany, and edicts were set forth which regulated the use of Party symbols etc. Best Regards, Fred

  6. #15
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    SS ...it is entirely possible.

  7. #16

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    Quote by maxxx View Post
    SS ...it is entirely possible.
    Hard to prove if it is or isnt until period documentation surfaces..or "period in wear " photos for that matter.

    I support Freds analysis as an appealing Knife..or a private bought knife adorned with period detailed engraving and etching. There have been some Hitler youth who were attached to the SS for certain Non military functions..yet nothing exists supporting this knife to actually being sanctified by the SS.

    There is an old adage which also supports what others want it to be ..." You can not make a $1.00 out of $.99 cents " These creationist thoughts and dreams without proof..hurt the hobby and the unsuspecting collector. We have seen this all too much with humped up etched bayonets..ruined by greed...the infamous Luftwaffe funeral dagger because it had a black grip and a story created that it was soley used for funerals..which in turn..was the white coating that chipped off the grip over time..and so on etc...

    Is this an SS youth knife?..not sure..and not about to let something be created out of nothing..to become something it never was. Much of the items which are very authentic that have no historical support sadly end up in the trash bin. All I can say..a knife as such posted above..may or may not be an HJ Honor bayonet...some medicine is hard to swallow..and in this hobby of collecting..without proof or support..the story also may be hard to swallow.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #17
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    comment from WAF:

    I firmly believe that the HJ Style Knife was the FIRST Nazi edged weapon and the Gladiator marked pieces were for the HJ, DAF, SS and posssibly other party organizations before standardization and the known dagger patterns that were finally accepted in 1933/34 era.
    Ron Weinand


    greeting

  9. #18

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    Not going to dispel Ron Weinands thoughts..but his statement " I firmly believe " is a matter of opinion..and with his thoughts..Im sure that there is photographic support..or period documentation. Could you please give us a link to that thread??
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #19
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    Topic Early e.pack HJ knife:

    E Pack - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    100% no one knows ..IMO

    the knives are available with motto Blut und Ehre and Meine Ehre heißt Treue Rare early HJ Bayonet and without Motto.

    greeting

  11. #20

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    Quote by maxxx View Post
    comment from WAF:

    I firmly believe that the HJ Style Knife was the FIRST Nazi edged weapon and the Gladiator marked pieces were for the HJ, DAF, SS and posssibly other party organizations before standardization and the known dagger patterns that were finally accepted in 1933/34 era.
    Ron Weinand


    greeting
    As was indicated the hobby is full of unsupported past speculations (some of which have made it into print) about this item or that - which when examined in detail have no basis in fact, with some even found to be outright frauds and/or fakes. Which includes everything from bad information or misidentifications, reproductions of legitimate items, to altered originals, or even items which have no TR period basis (postwar).

    Discussed over the years on multiple forums including not only Ron W. as one of the participants, but also with some of the hard core HJ specialists (and not just the knives) one period photo has surfaced. Showing not the suggested (speculated) individuals or groups of adult DAF or SS men etc. etc. carrying what were common to the era children's style camping knives or WW I style close combat knives. With to the best of my knowledge the single one known period photo - that of an HJ uniformed boy carrying among his other items a camping knife that appears that it could possibly be a "Gladiator" style knife, also wearing (known to the HJ specialists) a more or less datable early style of HJ hat badge. That said, I do have early period photos of SS men (no children) with WW I period bayonets. Best Regards, Fred

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